I wonder what the bike team "Team Type 1" has to show in this debate about carbs and ketosis in extreme athletics? They've won the Race Across America 4 times. I have a family member who was on that team and once asked him if he thought it would be a great idea for his health to go low carb. He was adamant against it. Then he went on to win that race twice with his compadres. So I couldn't help but think that he chose right!
It's interesting to think that they are carefully monitoring and controlling the blood sugar of that team (of type-1 diabetic racers) at all times, isn't it? To me, it seems to show that blood sugar control is a very important part of extreme athlete success. It could be the thing that makes you win.
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
I wonder what the bike team "Team Type 1" has to show in this debate about carbs and ketosis in extreme athletics? They've won the Race Across America 4 times. I have a family member who was on that team and once asked him if he thought it would be a great idea for his health to go low carb. He was adamant against it. Then he went on to win that race twice with his compadres. So I couldn't help but think that he chose right!
It's interesting to think that they are carefully monitoring and controlling the blood sugar of that team (of type-1 diabetic racers) at all times, isn't it? To me, it seems to show that blood sugar control is a very important part of extreme athlete success. It could be the thing that makes you win.
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
Avoiding bonking is one reason to be a ketogenic endurance athlete.
There are doctors connected to athletes who claim they advise ketogenic, professional athletes. But the athletes always prefer to remain anonymous, so who knows.
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
Avoiding bonking is one reason to be a ketogenic endurance athlete.
There are doctors connected to athletes who claim they advise ketogenic, professional athletes. But the athletes always prefer to remain anonymous, so who knows.
@jeremy "Avoiding bonking is one reason to be a ketogenic endurance athlete. There are doctors connected to athletes who claim they advise ketogenic, professional athletes. But the athletes always prefer to remain anonymous, so who knows"
HAHAHAHAHA you can't be serious dude.. Btw the problem with your theory be in ketosis to avoid bonking is that you can't go hard enough to be anywhere near to high level of competition that is the whole point of this "argument". Obviously if you think that you can push into pedals 300-500 watts per 4-7 hours in ketosis you have absolutely no clue about human physiology and it is complete waste of time to debat this topic with you..
Btw here you have the best cyclist right now. It is already basically living legend at this point. No it is not bag of jerky it is bag of haribos hehe
@jeremy "Avoiding bonking is one reason to be a ketogenic endurance athlete. There are doctors connected to athletes who claim they advise ketogenic, professional athletes. But the athletes always prefer to remain anonymous, so who knows"
HAHAHAHAHA you can't be serious dude.. Btw the problem with your theory be in ketosis to avoid bonking is that you can't go hard enough to be anywhere near to high level of competition that is the whole point of this "argument". Obviously if you think that you can push into pedals 300-500 watts per 4-7 hours in ketosis you have absolutely no clue about human physiology and it is complete waste of time to debat this topic with you..
Btw here you have the best cyclist right now. It is already basically living legend at this point. No it is not bag of jerky it is bag of haribos hehe
I wonder what the bike team "Team Type 1" has to show in this debate about carbs and ketosis in extreme athletics? They've won the Race Across America 4 times. I have a family member who was on that team and once asked him if he thought it would be a great idea for his health to go low carb. He was adamant against it. Then he went on to win that race twice with his compadres. So I couldn't help but think that he chose right!
It's interesting to think that they are carefully monitoring and controlling the blood sugar of that team (of type-1 diabetic racers) at all times, isn't it? To me, it seems to show that blood sugar control is a very important part of extreme athlete success. It could be the thing that makes you win.
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
Yeah they have basically advantage. Because they have much better understanding of how their body is using glucose. So what they were doing their whole life(monitoring blood sugar) started doing other PRO cyclists just recently basically.. They would love to use that glucose monitor during races. You can see on the computer exactly what is your blood sugar in real time and so you can use it as very accurate guide to how much and when to fuel. But they can't use it during UCI races. I don't know why. It would mean even better, faster racing. Which everyone wants to see fans, sponsors etc..
I wonder what the bike team "Team Type 1" has to show in this debate about carbs and ketosis in extreme athletics? They've won the Race Across America 4 times. I have a family member who was on that team and once asked him if he thought it would be a great idea for his health to go low carb. He was adamant against it. Then he went on to win that race twice with his compadres. So I couldn't help but think that he chose right!
It's interesting to think that they are carefully monitoring and controlling the blood sugar of that team (of type-1 diabetic racers) at all times, isn't it? To me, it seems to show that blood sugar control is a very important part of extreme athlete success. It could be the thing that makes you win.
He used to talk about bonking, it is something all bike racers try hard to avoid. "Bonking describes feeling completely drained or “hitting a wall” when strenuous exercise depletes the body's glycogen stores. Muscles require fuel for performance, and cyclists on long rides risk bonking without adequate carbohydrate intake."
Yeah they have basically advantage. Because they have much better understanding of how their body is using glucose. So what they were doing their whole life(monitoring blood sugar) started doing other PRO cyclists just recently basically.. They would love to use that glucose monitor during races. You can see on the computer exactly what is your blood sugar in real time and so you can use it as very accurate guide to how much and when to fuel. But they can't use it during UCI races. I don't know why. It would mean even better, faster racing. Which everyone wants to see fans, sponsors etc..
Also AFAIK dogs are running on the same type of metabolism as humans when they aren't eating constantly. They're going in and out of ketosis, relying predominantly on fat for energy and using gluconeogenesis to meet the relatively small amount of glucose needed. Most larger bodied mammals use this same metabolic model because it is far more efficient to store potential energy as fat than glycogen, and having larger energy reserves means you have a larger buffer against starvation and don't have to constantly hunt (if you're a predator) or browse/graze and expose yourself to predation (if you're an herbivore).
Where dogs really differ from humans is their ability to survive longterm on high-protein low-fat low-carb diets because of an enhanced ability to convert protein to glucose. Note, this does not mean that a HP/LF/LC diet is healthiest for dogs, only that they are evolved to survive on such a diet when they can't get enough fat from prey, the same way that humans are evolved to survive on carbohydrates and protein in the absence of sufficient fat.
I suspect Amber O'Hearn would diagree with this characterization of dogs. She would think carnivorous animals other than humans are constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for energy and humans are unique in relying on dietary fat and having high levels of ketones.
Herbivorous animals, confusingly, use SCFAs formed in the digestive system from fibrous plants for energy.
I didn't say that dogs are not constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for energy. Any mammal with minimal carb intake that is predominantly using fat for energy is also constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for smaller amounts of energy. It just depends on the amount of fat and protein in the diet. If a dog is given more fat, they will rely less on gluconeogenesis, the same as a human. Wild canids, such as wolves, that often eat in "feast and famine" cycles must store fat during "feasting" and rely on that fat during "famine" to survive, likely entering a state of ketosis if the fasting period is long enough. If they were relying primarily on gluconeogenesis during "famine" periods, they would be catabolizing their muscles and severely compromising their ability to bring down another prey item.
Fat is a limited resource on the landscape, as are digestible carbohydrates. Large carnivorous canids like wolves would surely prefer a fatty prey animal over a lean one because the fatty animal represents a greater return for a given energy expenditure. However, fatty prey animals are relatively scarce and are usually the most difficult to capture (because they are the healthiest), so wolves have evolved the ability to subsist on lean meat in the absence of fattier meat. Humans appear to have followed a similar evolutionary trajectory, seeking fat as the most efficient source of energy but making do with lean meat and carbohydrates when fat is unobtainable. We just have less capacity to convert protein into glucose and are therefore more reliant on carbohydrates as an alternative to fat.
Also AFAIK dogs are running on the same type of metabolism as humans when they aren't eating constantly. They're going in and out of ketosis, relying predominantly on fat for energy and using gluconeogenesis to meet the relatively small amount of glucose needed. Most larger bodied mammals use this same metabolic model because it is far more efficient to store potential energy as fat than glycogen, and having larger energy reserves means you have a larger buffer against starvation and don't have to constantly hunt (if you're a predator) or browse/graze and expose yourself to predation (if you're an herbivore).
Where dogs really differ from humans is their ability to survive longterm on high-protein low-fat low-carb diets because of an enhanced ability to convert protein to glucose. Note, this does not mean that a HP/LF/LC diet is healthiest for dogs, only that they are evolved to survive on such a diet when they can't get enough fat from prey, the same way that humans are evolved to survive on carbohydrates and protein in the absence of sufficient fat.
I suspect Amber O'Hearn would diagree with this characterization of dogs. She would think carnivorous animals other than humans are constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for energy and humans are unique in relying on dietary fat and having high levels of ketones.
Herbivorous animals, confusingly, use SCFAs formed in the digestive system from fibrous plants for energy.
I didn't say that dogs are not constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for energy. Any mammal with minimal carb intake that is predominantly using fat for energy is also constantly relying on gluconeogenesis for smaller amounts of energy. It just depends on the amount of fat and protein in the diet. If a dog is given more fat, they will rely less on gluconeogenesis, the same as a human. Wild canids, such as wolves, that often eat in "feast and famine" cycles must store fat during "feasting" and rely on that fat during "famine" to survive, likely entering a state of ketosis if the fasting period is long enough. If they were relying primarily on gluconeogenesis during "famine" periods, they would be catabolizing their muscles and severely compromising their ability to bring down another prey item.
Fat is a limited resource on the landscape, as are digestible carbohydrates. Large carnivorous canids like wolves would surely prefer a fatty prey animal over a lean one because the fatty animal represents a greater return for a given energy expenditure. However, fatty prey animals are relatively scarce and are usually the most difficult to capture (because they are the healthiest), so wolves have evolved the ability to subsist on lean meat in the absence of fattier meat. Humans appear to have followed a similar evolutionary trajectory, seeking fat as the most efficient source of energy but making do with lean meat and carbohydrates when fat is unobtainable. We just have less capacity to convert protein into glucose and are therefore more reliant on carbohydrates as an alternative to fat.
I specifically mentioned Amber O'Hearn. Here is an excerpt from an AI summary of the transcript to her video "The Lipivore: What is Fat For?"
Ketosis and Fat Metabolism: Amber discusses how obligate carnivores (e.g., felines) don’t typically enter ketosis even on low-carb diets or during fasting, unlike humans (38:24-38:33). Felines, for instance, develop fatty liver disease during fasting because they can’t turn off gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose) and don’t efficiently use fat via ketosis (38:33-38:56). Dolphins, lacking the enzyme HMGCS2, can’t produce ketones at all and rely on hyperglycemia during fasting (39:02-39:14). This contrasts with humans’ ability to readily use fat and enter ketosis.
I specifically mentioned Amber O'Hearn. Here is an excerpt from an AI summary of the transcript to her video "The Lipivore: What is Fat For?"
Ketosis and Fat Metabolism: Amber discusses how obligate carnivores (e.g., felines) don’t typically enter ketosis even on low-carb diets or during fasting, unlike humans (38:24-38:33). Felines, for instance, develop fatty liver disease during fasting because they can’t turn off gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose) and don’t efficiently use fat via ketosis (38:33-38:56). Dolphins, lacking the enzyme HMGCS2, can’t produce ketones at all and rely on hyperglycemia during fasting (39:02-39:14). This contrasts with humans’ ability to readily use fat and enter ketosis.
The older I get, the harder I try never to let the phrase "it is so obvious to me" leave my mouth. That is the catch phrase of the ignorant, egotistical mind. If you think something even mildly complex is obvious, it means you have stopped considering alternative explanations, you have ceased thinking critically, and you are simply a sounding board for someone else's thoughts. Go look at Noakes' work. He is asking critical questions and working hard to answer them with rigorous science so that the rest of us might shed the wool that's been pulled over our eyes for decades.
The older I get, the harder I try never to let the phrase "it is so obvious to me" leave my mouth. That is the catch phrase of the ignorant, egotistical mind. If you think something even mildly complex is obvious, it means you have stopped considering alternative explanations, you have ceased thinking critically, and you are simply a sounding board for someone else's thoughts. Go look at Noakes' work. He is asking critical questions and working hard to answer them with rigorous science so that the rest of us might shed the wool that's been pulled over our eyes for decades.
I specifically mentioned Amber O'Hearn. Here is an excerpt from an AI summary of the transcript to her video "The Lipivore: What is Fat For?"
Ketosis and Fat Metabolism: Amber discusses how obligate carnivores (e.g., felines) don’t typically enter ketosis even on low-carb diets or during fasting, unlike humans (38:24-38:33). Felines, for instance, develop fatty liver disease during fasting because they can’t turn off gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose) and don’t efficiently use fat via ketosis (38:33-38:56). Dolphins, lacking the enzyme HMGCS2, can’t produce ketones at all and rely on hyperglycemia during fasting (39:02-39:14). This contrasts with humans’ ability to readily use fat and enter ketosis.
This is what you said: "I suspect Amber O'Hearn would diagree with this characterization of dogs."
I've specifically been talking about dogs/canids, which are considered facultative carnivores like humans and are able to enter ketosis. I never mentioned obligate carnivores.
I specifically mentioned Amber O'Hearn. Here is an excerpt from an AI summary of the transcript to her video "The Lipivore: What is Fat For?"
Ketosis and Fat Metabolism: Amber discusses how obligate carnivores (e.g., felines) don’t typically enter ketosis even on low-carb diets or during fasting, unlike humans (38:24-38:33). Felines, for instance, develop fatty liver disease during fasting because they can’t turn off gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose) and don’t efficiently use fat via ketosis (38:33-38:56). Dolphins, lacking the enzyme HMGCS2, can’t produce ketones at all and rely on hyperglycemia during fasting (39:02-39:14). This contrasts with humans’ ability to readily use fat and enter ketosis.
This is what you said: "I suspect Amber O'Hearn would diagree with this characterization of dogs."
I've specifically been talking about dogs/canids, which are considered facultative carnivores like humans and are able to enter ketosis. I never mentioned obligate carnivores.
@tricky Athletes will do anything to be the best. If they would be better while in ketosis everyone would be in ketosis. The reality is exact opposite. They are pushing more and more carbs now it is even in numbers up to 150-200g par hour.. So feel free to show me at least one top PRO cyclist, marathon runner, Ironman athlete etc.. on highest level who is competing with the best in the world in ketosis. Until then this conversation is pointless. It is debating if bigfoot exist or not.. Just pls don't post here some average athlete again.. I am not saying that you can't ride a bike while on ketosis. I am saying you can't compete at races like Tour de France while in ketosis.. That would be like that the gamechangers vegan BS propaganda. Where they showed some average vegan strongman who was not even competing on the biggest competitions with the best in the world. LOL or where Arnold was talking some BS meanwhile he build his physique on meat and eggs(and steroids) heh..
@tricky Athletes will do anything to be the best. If they would be better while in ketosis everyone would be in ketosis. The reality is exact opposite. They are pushing more and more carbs now it is even in numbers up to 150-200g par hour.. So feel free to show me at least one top PRO cyclist, marathon runner, Ironman athlete etc.. on highest level who is competing with the best in the world in ketosis. Until then this conversation is pointless. It is debating if bigfoot exist or not.. Just pls don't post here some average athlete again.. I am not saying that you can't ride a bike while on ketosis. I am saying you can't compete at races like Tour de France while in ketosis.. That would be like that the gamechangers vegan BS propaganda. Where they showed some average vegan strongman who was not even competing on the biggest competitions with the best in the world. LOL or where Arnold was talking some BS meanwhile he build his physique on meat and eggs(and steroids) heh..
