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Post Elimination Diet
Hi, it's been a while since I've been on here.
A few things - I was TOTALLY mentally drained by July of this year. I'm pretty impressed though, lasted 1.5 years haha. All my friends thought I vanished from existence. There's one problem though, I feel like im still very sensitive to vitamin A. I got off the diet in July.. relapsed you could say, and went BACK on it the first week of August - felt normal again but was suffering just as much mentally.
I feel like no matter how long I keep this diet, I will be sensitive being reintroduced to VA. Also, another red flag, but I started getting loads of injuries while on the diet. My friend suggested that it may have been the lack of fats, but im not sure. Joint aches still persist but are a lot better(tendonitis?). I'm only 19, so this is a bit worrisome. I also started shedding more hair since eating normally, and lost about 20% density, no receding hairline(thankfully) or anything. Is my body just sensitive to the sudden VA in my diet? Lots of people who have taken accutane say this symptoms goes away, lets hope it does. Other than that though, everything has been AMAZING!
Hi @Thomas I think it’s not well understood how sensitive people will be after the vA elimination diet as I don’t think many people have got there yet. I’ve been on a low - moderate vA diet for 2 years now & feel like it may take another year. However, I’m 56 & I think this toxicity has been slowly building up for years probably hitting real problems about 8 years ago so I think it will take me longer that someone of your age.
Have you been monitoring your vA serum retinol? Although it’s not a perfect measure of vA stores it does seem to come down as people have less vA in body. It could be a useful measure of how you are doing. Also if you’ve taken Accutane I think damage may take longer to repair. We are all still learning about this.
@thomas when somebody says " I got off the diet" I wonder why? Because you crave fatty dairy? Liver? Carrots or spinach? I understand when somebody goes off low carb diet or vegan diet or whatever, but I am on low vit A diet like 14 months now and I don't crave any high vit A foods at all. I am also on no gluten, no high copper foods etc.. So my diet is more restricted, but in terms of just avoiding too much vit A. I don't understand why somebody would go off the diet when he knows how bad excess of vit A is and suddenly starts to binge on carrot juice and liver? Maybe you think you should either eat zero or almost zero vit A diet or just forget about vit A and eat whatever? It is not like that. Everything or nothing mentality.. doesn't work in nutrition world. We know, you know that vit A in excess is not good for us. So just keep that in mind and if you can avoid foods high in vit A, for sure avoid vit A from supplements etc.. But you can eat basically normal diet. Most people who don't try to eat "healthy" and don't follow some paleo, vegan or whatever eat low vit A diet anyway.. So my mindset now is that I am not on some restrictive diet. I simply keep in mind that vit A is not good for me in excess. Same like fried foods are not good for me. Or refined vegetable oils are not good for me etc. etc.. Anyways I am simply confused why would somebody "go off the diet" when you can eat almost everything on this diet. You don't need to eat like Grant rice, beans and beef. It is not about keeping vit A almost zero. I am also eating around 1000iu a day from low vit A foods.. Even with this intake you will slowly reduce that stored amount in the liver. Some argue that if you eat almost zero vit A. The body will not detox it that fast like when you eat little more..
Quote from JAJ on October 4, 2020, 6:09 amHi @Thomas I think it’s not well understood how sensitive people will be after the vA elimination diet as I don’t think many people have got there yet. I’ve been on a low - moderate vA diet for 2 years now & feel like it may take another year. However, I’m 56 & I think this toxicity has been slowly building up for years probably hitting real problems about 8 years ago so I think it will take me longer that someone of your age.
Have you been monitoring your vA serum retinol? Although it’s not a perfect measure of vA stores it does seem to come down as people have less vA in body. It could be a useful measure of how you are doing. Also if you’ve taken Accutane I think damage may take longer to repair. We are all still learning about this.
How do you feel now? Did you eat a lot of high VA foods, accutane? And no, I haven't been monitoring my retinol or anything. I did not take Accutane either, just 8000 IU of VA a day for 4 months. Grant himself did say that the lower your age is the faster your detox, so I guess I got lucky with that one. I'm actually doing better! Mentally and physically. I am dreaming EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. That didn't happen on the 0 VA diet. I am also quick to fall asleep. The bloating I had on the VA diet is gone, and my skin has more elasticity and moisture.
Quote from Jiří on October 4, 2020, 6:19 am@thomas when somebody says " I got off the diet" I wonder why? Because you crave fatty dairy? Liver? Carrots or spinach? I understand when somebody goes off low carb diet or vegan diet or whatever, but I am on low vit A diet like 14 months now and I don't crave any high vit A foods at all. I am also on no gluten, no high copper foods etc.. So my diet is more restricted, but in terms of just avoiding too much vit A. I don't understand why somebody would go off the diet when he knows how bad excess of vit A is and suddenly starts to binge on carrot juice and liver? Maybe you think you should either eat zero or almost zero vit A diet or just forget about vit A and eat whatever? It is not like that. Everything or nothing mentality.. doesn't work in nutrition world. We know, you know that vit A in excess is not good for us. So just keep that in mind and if you can avoid foods high in vit A, for sure avoid vit A from supplements etc.. But you can eat basically normal diet. Most people who don't try to eat "healthy" and don't follow some paleo, vegan or whatever eat low vit A diet anyway.. So my mindset now is that I am not on some restrictive diet. I simply keep in mind that vit A is not good for me in excess. Same like fried foods are not good for me. Or refined vegetable oils are not good for me etc. etc.. Anyways I am simply confused why would somebody "go off the diet" when you can eat almost everything on this diet. You don't need to eat like Grant rice, beans and beef. It is not about keeping vit A almost zero. I am also eating around 1000iu a day from low vit A foods.. Even with this intake you will slowly reduce that stored amount in the liver. Some argue that if you eat almost zero vit A. The body will not detox it that fast like when you eat little more..
I am pretty much on your diet. I was on the "Grant" diet for close to a year, with 1 cheat day a month(which didn't even have much VA). I never really understood how people crave veggies, liver, and stuff like that. I've disliked "healthy" foods since I was a kid, all my vitamin A would come from multi vits and milk. That said, my current diet is a smoothie in the morn (VA free almond milk), 3 eggs with whites and half an avocado for dinner, and chicken and rice w/ the other half avocado for dinner. I am also cautious to avoid VA foods because of the mental trauma from my past.
Edit: you speaking about your diet actually made me feel much better, so thank you
@thomas What do you mean when you say you are sensitive to vA, i.e. what symptoms do you get when you eat high vA foods and which high vA foods are you eating?
Also, what is your diet history like? Taking 8000 IU of VA a day for four months does not seem that bad to be honest, especially for someone as young as you. If you do not mind providing some more information, people on the forum might be able to provide some suggestions for things to research related to your symptoms. For example, joint aches/pains can be related to iron issues or even Candida overgrowth. Have you ever had your iron levels checked or had digestive issues that may indicate a bacterial or yeast overgrowth?
Just some thoughts.
Hi Thomas,
We're really close in age. That's interesting that you have experienced more injuries. I've experienced some minor injuries while on the diet. Wrist strain and back strain to the point where knots developed on my back. My wrist has mostly recovered but my muscle knots are still there and have been there for a few months. I think this has to do with the diet, but I'm not sure because I am also training more intensely than I have before. What injuries have you had?
I'm also interested in your progress thus far if you would like to share. What has improved for you? I also think you made a post on taking calcium while on this diet. How did that go?
I think that muscle tightness is a part of what I am/was experiencing with the VA toxicity. I was experiencing it long before I ever heard Grant's name and was downing sticks of butter and dozens of eggs and washing it down with cod liver oil.
This has turned into days on the couch with stiff neck, weeks with back thrown out, nights hollering with leg cramps etc. It probably has to do with head pressure and even lip cracking. This may be related to why fingers become bent. Some of my joints have gotten less tight lately, such as my hips, which had just really begun to be stiff before learning about Grant. Long-standing things take longer to fix than short-standing things.
Perhaps it has to do with some vitamin or mineral being low (because detox is using it up). Electrolytes could be involved in cramps. Or perhaps shrinkage of tissues (which I really think is a thing).
It helps me to warm up my hamstrings and feet and lips and hands and other things slowly on waking. It helps to use the body properly with good posture. And to slowly ramp up into exercize and do some every day.
I would attribute muscle tightness and spasms to calcium dysregulation, which is influenced by vA, vD and vK to some extent. Other things are involved as well, such as magnesium, boron, potassium, thyroid function, etc., but there is certainly a connection between the fat solubles and calcium metabolism in the body.
In my experience, a history of high calcium intake, high vA intake and supplemental vD (whether through pills or food fortification) is going to lead to stiff muscles, joint pain, muscle spasms, etc.
During my high-VA time, certain things that are common to take would have a"kaflouie" effect on me. Notably, B-vities and magnesium were on that list. A few days of b-vitamins, and I'd feel wound up like on speed (my mother says the same thing), a few days on magnesium and I'd have a stiff neck.
So, this tells me, @mmb3664 that you are right. Nutrients are all messed up and not so easy to fix when the intake of VA doesn't stop. Perhaps, though, once the VA load is lessened you naturally catch up (as Grant has).
I don't necessarily think that supplementing is always needed. In the case of these young people maybe time is just needed to replace tissues that were damaged.
I don't think my diet is very replete with b-vities, and I think I have a lot more to overcome, so I've started dabbling with tiny doses of the b's. There has been a kaflouie effect (many VA symptoms have returned, including some stiffness)! As @tim-2 has suggested, it could be that taking things like b-vities can speed up the detox (and perhaps slow is better). I don't know. I'm experimenting.
- Magnesium Foods that are somewhat friendly to lowered VA:
- Almonds, dry roasted: Serving Size 1 oz, 80 mg
- Peanuts, oil roasted: Serving Size ¼ cup, 63 mg
- Cereal, shredded wheat: Serving Size 2 large biscuits, 61 mg
- Black beans, cooked: Serving Size ½ cup, 60 mg
- Dark chocolate -60-69% cacoa: Serving Size 1 oz, 50 mg
- Peanut butter, smooth: Serving Size 2 tablespoons, 49 mg
- Bread, whole wheat: Serving Size 2 slices, 46 mg
- Potato, baked with skin: Serving Size 3.5 oz, oz, 43 mg (woops, you wouldn't want to eat the peel)
- Rice, brown, cooked: Serving Size ½ cup, 42 mg
- Yogurt, plain, low fat: Serving Size 8 oz, 42 mg (as long as no VA supp)
- Oatmeal, instant: Serving Size 1 packet, 36 mg
- Kidney beans, canned: Serving Size ½ cup, 35 mg
- Banana: Serving Size 1 medium, 32 mg
- Cocoa powder– unsweetened: Serving Size 1 tablespoon, 27 mg
- Halibut, cooked: Serving Size 3 oz, 24 mg
- Raisins: Serving Size ½ cup, 23 mg
- Chicken breast, roasted: Serving Size 3 oz, 22 mg
- Beef, ground, 90% lean: Serving Size 3 oz, 20 mg
- Rice, white, cooked: Serving Size ½ cup, 10 mg
- Apple: Serving Size 1 medium, 9 mg (don't know if this means peeled or not)