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PUFA, what are your thoughts?
Do you think that high PUFA foods are healthy, like nuts and seeds? This is one thing that I just can't seem to make up my mind. There's Ray Peat theory that PUFAs are not essential and in fact they are harmful. And then there's the common theory that PUFAs are essential. I just recently discovered Karen Hurd the bean queen (thanks to Puddleduck) and I like her ideas and she recommends eating a lot of nuts.
Help me out here, what do you think, should we gorge on some walnuts or leave them nuts alone?
I don't think PUFA in whole foods or minimally processed foods, is a worry if you are not eating a high fat diet. I eat a few seeds and/or nuts with PUFA everyday, maybe an ounce usually or sometimes up to 2 ounces on occasion. If they contributed to a big portion of your diet, then that probably isn't good but there would be other problems with that, not just PUFA.
Hey @samuli !
I dunno if you are in the Facebook group, but a couple of us have been talking about plant-based EFAs over there today. I am a fan! Linda Kane and Brian Peskin have been my primary influences in this area:
Brian Peskin YouTube Lecture
https://www.youtube.com/watch
The Physicians Concise Guide to: The Scientific Ratio of the Optimum PEO [omega 6/omega 3] Ratio
http://brianpeskin.com/pdf/reports/OptimumPEOratio-CAMB.pdf
BodyBIO and Linda Kane Bulletin
http://becknatmed.com/doc/BodyBioBulletin-4to1Oil.pdf
Neurolipid Research Foundation
https://www.neurolipid.org/
Personally, I limit my walnut intake because they are high in omega 3s. Lately I have been trying to be more intentional about my EFA intake, because I find it helps me, so I have been eating sunflower seeds, cold pressed sunflower oil, hemp hearts, and limited walnuts every day.
I was influenced by Ray Peat for a while, and tried to avoid PUFAs for 9 years without seeing good results, so I changed course. 😝
Karen Hurd suggests avoiding coconut oil because she thinks it causes inflammation in the body (I forget her exact explanation for that, but it was in her podcast interview with Lacy Phillips—might be worth comparing what she says to what Peat says and see which makes more sense to ya since if you are going to be avoiding PUFAs, you will probably eat saturated fats instead), but Linda Kane does not see a problem with coconut oil and recommends it for cooking and baking because it is a more heat-stable fat.
You will probably get some responses here from people who strongly disagree with Kane and Peskin, though! 😝 Ultimately, I end up going with what I seem to react to best and what my appetite says, as well, which I think is a good approach because we are individuals and might have different needs and imbalances.
Thanks Puddleduck, you have given me a lot to study. Are you following Karen Hurd's advice on eating your nuts/fats on empty stomach between meals and with some salt?
So I quickly studied some info you gave me and the recommended ratio of o-6 to o-3 is 6.1:1. Now I know the ratio but how much o-6 do I need in grams?
@samuli I am basing what I am doing on this PDF, pretty much, although I do consume a bit less omega 3s than they recommend: http://www.longevity-and-antiaging-secrets.com/support-files/bodybio.pdf
They are using this oil:
https://bodybio.com/products/bodybio-balance-oil
But they also suggest hemp oil, since it has a similar omega-6/3 ratio:
https://www.vitacost.com/manitoba-harvest-organic-hemp-oil-16-9-fl-oz
They suggest 1 tablespoon daily for a healthy person, but 2 tablespoons 2 to 3 times daily for someone ill! So it can be quite a large amount... Really depends on your own needs.
I am getting my omega 3s from whole nuts/seeds, and taking this sunflower oil:
https://www.vitacost.com/flora-organic-sunflower-oil
I consume 2 tablespoons hemp hearts, roughly 3 walnuts, and 1 teaspoon flaxseed for omega 3s, along with 2 tablespoons sunflower oil and 1/4 cup sunflower seeds for omega 6s.
Sometimes I blend it with water (homemade seed/nut milk) and drink it for breakfast by itself, but usually I have it with a bit of porridge. I do have salt with it though, for sure! 👍
Consuming PUFA oils is suicide. We all know that. Even most vegans (who still have some brain cells left) agree that vegetable oils shouldn't be consumed at all..
Animals that consume low fat diets like cattle have fat that contains very little PUFA, the body creates only saturated and monounsaturated fats from protein or carbohydrates. Saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids are much easier for the body to use as energy than PUFA and they release more energy too. So glucose along with saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids are the body's preferred fuel. This is one reason why PUFA and fructose are seen as problematic because they are less optimal energy sources. PUFA oxidizes endogenously too adding a double whammy of harm. Primitive humans often ate a large quantity of nuts because it was an easily available energy source but it isn't optimal. When we have a range of foods available we naturally choose to consume only small quantities of nuts.
Faddists will always create special dietary rules to follow so they can create a niche and following and draw profit and status from it. These dietary rules almost always lead people away from health because without learning about "healthy" eating people instinctually choose a diet themselves that is better (at least macronutrient wise) than all the different fad diets available.
My intuition (based on taste) is that I really don't like any veg oils, including coconut. That being said, I kind of like to eat nuts and seeds and nut butters, as SOMETIMES foods.
I think animal fats (for cooking) are the way to go, personally. I just don't have my act together yet regarding fats. In the past I've kept grass-based tallow in the freezer in small pats to use in cooking. I really need to find some lard to buy, because I don't like the lard I've personally rendered. People from areas with lots of goats and sheep might want to explore those fats. I know I've seen fats like that even used in tea from the middle east etc.
I don't think I'll ever stop using a bit of olive oil for salad dressing. And a tiny bit of butter on just-baked bread.
The thing is that when I followed Ray Peat inspired super low PUFA diet I became ill with this neurological disease. Plus my skin was absolutely disgusting when I was on that diet, acne, dryness, flaking, redness etc. So why would I make the same mistakes again what got me in this mess in first place? You have to understand that for twenty years I have researched and tried all the diets in the world, paleo, carnivore, omnivore, keto, plant based etc. And with twenty years of experience I can say with 100% certainty that I'm plant based for the rest of my life til the day I draw my last breath. The only thing that I have not tried is getting adequate amounts of omega 6 LA. I have never even got 50% of RDA of LA and my skin has always been really flaky and even washing with tepid water my skin becomes dry and tight.
I did one year extreme low PUFA RP diet, but it was full on VA. The RP diet is perfect to overload on VA, tons of dairy, liver, fruit, OJ. Skin just continued to worsen for me as well.