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Pyroluria
In 2015 I tested mildly positive for pyroluria. This is a common disorder of heme production where a toxic by product called HPU ends up in the blood and causes a serious deficiency of B6 and zinc.
Pyroluria is made much worse by stress. I now wonder with my knowledge that stress blocks bile flow (Chris Shade) if this is just more HPU getting into blood and urine (as opposed to exiting via gut) rather than increased production, but that just a theory. The point is that stress makes the deficiencies worse. I wonder if my mild case has become more severe due to stress/anxiety.
When I discovered that I was vA toxic (2018) I carried on with my pyroluria supplements until about mid 2019 when I allowed myself to be convinced that B6 could be toxic too (I think it can in certain circumstances but it can also be very much needed). I guess I’d got frightened of vitamin supplements after my vA poisoning experience. Big mistake I now think.
Over 2021 (my third year on the detox) I’ve noticed increasing food intolerances: salicylates, amines, sulphur intolerance. What do they all have in common? Sulphur/sulphate/sulphation. Which vitamin is required for these processes?? Yes you guessed…B6. I think I’ve run myself into a severe B6 deficiency. I’ve been a fool.
B6 is also required to make our calming/happy neurotransmitters GABA and serotonin. I’ve been suffering from extreme anxiety. Then anxiety slows bile flow and increases toxicity. This leads to a further depletion of B6… I think I’ve been stuck in a negative loop.
I’m just writing this post to make people aware of pyroluria. It’s supposed to affect 10% of the healthy population and a much higher level of chronically sick. It’s both genetic and environmentally induced (cholestasis?). If you are B6 deficient you can’t sulphate, so you can’t detoxify. Dr Klinghart treats pyroluria first in his protocols as without adequate B6 and zinc so many pathways don’t work.
https://www.townsendletter.com/July2017/krypto0717.html
@jaj I appreciate how you always use your mistakes as a learning opportunity. Though when you say "I've been a fool" it saddens me because I believe you were acting on what you believed, and that is the way that we learn, whether for good or bad. Please don't think badly of yourself; you have been doing the best you could do, given the situation -- I have had to learn to give myself grace, as well, for my past huge blunders, so I know what I'm talking about!
I am wondering, with the blockage of sulfation, have your HTMAs shown excessive sulfur?
Interesting thread @orion I’ve never been on the RP forum before! I agree with much of what is said but if pyroluria is a problem then B6 levels can get so depleted that food can’t replete. I know about B6 toxicity but that doesn’t mean some people aren’t very deficient (in fact B6 toxicity is probably cellular B6 deficiency from what I’ve been reading). Thanks for link.
Thanks Kathy @kathy55wood that’s very kind. I do feel I’ve been a fool but as you say we are all on a learning curve. My sulphur is right in the middle of the range but I’m not sure that sulphation problems would show up as free sulphur on a hair test. I suspect I have high cysteine levels making me react very badly to thiols in the diet. B6 is required for the enzymes that turn cysteine into taurine and sulphate so without B6 one is likely to get a build up. This is my current theory based on a number of clues.
@jaj I just find that things are always so polar opposite sometimes looking into to all this health stuff, VA is good, VA is toxic, B6 is good, B6 is toxic... 🙂 Will you test for pyroluria again? I have read about it over the years on different forums, it does seem to mimic other disorders and difficult to put in remission, is it just Zn and B6 to resolve it?
There are some other nutrients but zinc and B6 are the main ones. I think if you test positive for HPU with KEAC lab in Holland then it means you always have that tendency. I’ve been under stress for 5 years now with various things so I suspect pyroluria has been a real issue for me. It fits the current picture for me.
I blow hot and cold on taurine. With enough B6 cysteine should be turned into taurine. I wondered if adding it wouldn’t be helpful as it perhaps may slow this pathway and I want to reduce cysteine I’m pretty sure.
>B6 is also required to make our calming/happy neurotransmitters GABA and serotonin.
If you have read the articles by Ray Peat, you will find that to increase serotonin is not something to strive for:
https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/serotonin-depression-aggression.shtml
You also wrote that you had excess weight at the beginning of the diet. It looks like you were taking B6 at the same time (unless I'm confused about your chronology). Serotonin is a known culprit of insulin resistance and excess weight.
I don't think B6 is needed for GABA synthesis. In fact, in one study on mice, after 107 days of a debilitating diet, the activity of glutamate decarboxylase only increased.
>I’ve been suffering from extreme anxiety. Then anxiety slows bile flow and increases toxicity.
"Potential psychiatric symptoms range from anxiety, depression, agitation, and cognitive deficits to psychosis.[32]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome
Personally, I think that before taking B6 sup, you need to make sure that you really have a deficiency. I think that the analysis for pyridoxal phosphate in erythrocytes is more informative. I don't think that someone on such meat diet as low vitamin A can suffer from a deficiency of B6. As far as I know, the average daily intake of B6 in the USA is already one and a half times higher than RDA.
Uploaded files:If you have a problem with cholestasis, I would recommend toto try coffee/chocolate. For me, it's drive bile better than TUDCA and all the pills from the pharmacy taken together.
Thanks @danil. Sadly coffee and chocolate are both high thiol foods and I’m currently reacting very badly to high thiol foods. There is a theory that they move mercury around body so I won’t be messing around with that.
I do really well mentally on SSRIs so I’ve always thought I must be prone to low serotonin. I also have SNPs in the main enzyme in that pathway. I know high serotonin isn’t a good thing (serotonin syndrome) but you want enough.
I don’t follow a high meat diet but even if I did if you have pyroluria the B6 deficiency cannot be corrected by B6 from food. Pyroluria is a real problem. Dr Klinghart treats it first. I trust him.