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Pyroluria
Quote from Jenny on November 25, 2021, 10:20 amThanks @danil. Sadly coffee and chocolate are both high thiol foods and I’m currently reacting very badly to high thiol foods. There is a theory that they move mercury around body so I won’t be messing around with that.
I do really well mentally on SSRIs so I’ve always thought I must be prone to low serotonin. I also have SNPs in the main enzyme in that pathway. I know high serotonin isn’t a good thing (serotonin syndrome) but you want enough.
I don’t follow a high meat diet but even if I did if you have pyroluria the B6 deficiency cannot be corrected by B6 from food. Pyroluria is a real problem. Dr Klinghart treats it first. I trust him.
I do really well mentally on SSRIs so I’ve always thought I must be prone to low serotonin.
SSRIs do a lot of things besides affecting serotonin. The above article by Ray partially describes this. Also keep in mind that an increase in serotonin shortens life expectancy:
if I did if you have pyroluria the B6 deficiency cannot be corrected by B6 from food
I think you need to be sure that you really have a B6 deficiency.
Btw, B6 itself depletes zinc and B1 and B3.
Well I have pyroluria so it’s very likely. I was deficient when I last tested.
Anne Pemberton webinar on pyroluria is a really good source of information for anyone interested in knowing more about this common issue.
https://www.annepemberton.co.uk/pyrroluria-unmasked/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15325498/
In this study, B6 supplementation (although in a fairly large dose) increases TBARS, which Ray believes is the cause of pyrroluria.
I've just been reading about acrodinia. Interestingly, this peeling of the skin strongly reminds me hypervitaminosis A. And something else. Thus, there may be a connection between these conditions.
Acrodinia (Feer's disease, Swift syndrome, erythroderma polyneuropathic) is a disease of unclear etiology (mainly in children under 5 years old) characterized by behavioral changes to severe mental disorders, polymorphic changes in the skin of the extremities with severe itching and pain, muscle hypotension, paresis, paralysis.
And here I immediately remembered Grant's charts on the content of vitamin A in the liver with age..
"The addition of the vitamin analogue, desoxypyridoxine, decreases the time of appearance, and increases the severity
of the acrodynia. With the dietary levels employed, the pattern of the deficiency syndrome appears to be unchanged
from that observed by simple pyridoxine deprivation (Stoerk,'50)."
"A consistent observation which has been noted in the numerous experiments performed in this laboratory has been the greater ease with which male albino rats develop acrodynia as compared with females. Not only is the rate of appearance of acrodynia greater in male rats, but the acrodynia is much more severe after a prolonged experimental period."
I consider the experiments of acrodinia as a deficiency of B6 fraudulent. They poisoned both groups of animals with desoxypyridoxine. It reminds me"vitamin A deficiency" feeding casein.
"The basal diet employed in this experiment was that described in the gelatin experiment with the one exception that the gelatin was replaced by vitamin-free casein. A second diet was employed differing in that the total casein content was raised from 20% to 75% by weight at the expense of sucrose. The third diet used was identical with the 20% casein diet but L-glutamic acid was added at a level of 12.1% by weight at the expense of sucrose, thus making it comparable. in glutamic acid content with the 75% casein diet. Again, 100Mg desoxypyridoxine per rat per day were added to the diet of all animals, and the control animals were further provided with 50Mg pyridoxine hydrochloride per rat per day in their food. Food and water were supplied ad libitum and animals were maintained on these regimes for 20 days. Each group was comprised of 6 male and 6 female rat with an average body weight of 140gm. The accrued data on acrodynia are given in table 2."
Uploaded files:I think it is well recognised that inactive B6 (pyridoxine) is not the best supplement for some people due to other deficiencies.
I’m not quite sure what you are trying to prove @daniil. The first paper shows that feeding rats a toxic substance (hydroxytoluene) isn’t good and B6 leads to more 5HT - I think that it is known as it’s a co-factor for that reaction.
I was just trying to inform people about pyroluria as I think it’s largely unrecognised and a huge problem for some people. I’ve been following people’s remarkable health transformations,once they address it, for years. I don’t think that pyroluria is fully understood and I suspect cholestasis is involved in why it gets so much worse under stress. However, that does not take away from the fact that when levels of pyrrole (HPU) increase in the blood, the body gets extremely depleted in B6 and zinc. This means that MANY enzyme reactions go very slow and this is a huge problem for the workings of the body.
The fact that you can have a toxicity OR a deficiency of a nutrient (in different people) and both cause problems is not a new concept. Pyroluria is a huge deficiency of B6. That does not mean B6 can’t be toxic under certain circumstances but that is NOT what I’m trying to discuss here.
I’m not suggesting that anyone supplements B6 unless they know they have high pyrroles. This is a simple urine test. If you answer yes to several of the questions in Trudy Scott’s questionnaire then it may be something you would find useful to look into, as it may help.
That’s all I’m saying. Just an information post about a topic I know quite a lot about and others may not have heard about, but it may be an important piece of their health jigsaw. I’ve been propelled to do this as I shared the questionnaire with someone who said they answered yes to virtually all the questions but had never really heard about it. That made me realise that it wasn’t as well known as I’d assumed.
Quote from Jenny on November 26, 2021, 2:03 amI think it is well recognised that inactive B6 (pyridoxine) is not the best supplement for some people due to other deficiencies.
I’m not quite sure what you are trying to prove @daniil. The first paper shows that feeding rats a toxic substance (hydroxytoluene) isn’t good and B6 leads to more 5HT - I think that it is known as it’s a co-factor for that reaction.
I was just trying to inform people about pyroluria as I think it’s largely unrecognised and a huge problem for some people. I’ve been following people’s remarkable health transformations,once they address it, for years. I don’t think that pyroluria is fully understood and I suspect cholestasis is involved in why it gets so much worse under stress. However, that does not take away from the fact that when levels of pyrrole (HPU) increase in the blood, the body gets extremely depleted in B6 and zinc. This means that MANY enzymes reactions go very slow and this is a huge problem for the workings of the body.
The fact that you can have a toxicity OR a deficiency of a nutrient and both cause problems is not a new concept. Pyroluria is a huge deficiency of B6. That does not mean B6 can’t be toxic under certain circumstances but that is NOT what I’m trying to discuss here.
I’m not suggesting that anyone supplements B6 unless they know they have high pyrroles. This is a simple urine test. If you answer yes to several of the questions in Trudy Scott’s questionnaire then it may be something you would find useful to look into, as it may help.
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
That’s all I’m saying. Just an information post about a topic I know quite a lot about and others may not have heard about, but it may be an important piece of their health jigsaw. I’ve been propelled to do this as I shared the questionnaire with someone who said they answered yes to all the questions but had never heard of it. That made me realise that it wasn’t as well known as I’d assumed.
Nothing. I am just writing my thoughts on the topic here.
Groups B6 alone also showed an increase in TBARS.