I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Rapid Gum Recession
@lil chick have you ever looked at pyroluria. It’s a stress induced B6 (and zinc) deficiency. When you mentioned stress and B depletion it came into my mind. I’ve been revisiting it and am kicking myself for not keeping up with my pyroluria supplement. I now think this has been a HUGE mistake.
Quote from Jenny on November 18, 2021, 9:39 am@lil chick have you ever looked at pyroluria. It’s a stress induced B6 (and zinc) deficiency. When you mentioned stress and B depletion it came into my mind. I’ve been revisiting it and am kicking myself for not keeping up with my pyroluria supplement. I now think this has been a HUGE mistake.
Hi @jaj, how are you? Thanks, I looked into it before and just now too. It definitely seems like it might be something that my family genetics dabble near but the list of symptoms doesn't really suit my daily life. However, maybe after a strong stressor! It could explain some melt downs, say, around the holidays when my kids were young and I was overworked. Or maybe even explain bad old PMS, if you think on it, menstruation might suck down nutrients and put you in a low B/zinc state. (especially when you are high VA).
Thanks, @jonette! That is very interesting, and of all the zillions of supplements I've tried, I never did take lactoferrin. I'm still not sure the fish oil or the Vitamin K would be good, but I'm going to get all three and see. The herpes is destroying my mouth. 🙁 Thanks for sharing your family's experiences! It is "good" to at least not feel alone. 🙂
I now seem to have gingivitis throughout my whole mouth that is gradually worsening.
However, I may have found a connection relating to iron that might help me turn it around.
It looks like people with hemochromatosis tend to use Vitamin C at a higher rate than normal in order to counteract the effects of iron “pooling” in the tissues. There are case reports of scurvy induced by hemochromatosis, as well as a correlation between aggressive periodontitis and hemochromatosis.
I’m pretty sure I don’t have hemochromatosis, but I suspect that I’ve had iron dysregulation for years that probably stems from Vitamin A toxicity and associated liver problems. If ceruloplasmin levels are depressed by poor liver function, this could lead to iron dysregulation that in some ways mimics hemochromatosis (Morley Robbins’ ideas seem to explain this). I believe this pattern, in combination with my high heme iron intake from red meat, might explain not only my recent gum problems, but also my cherry angiomas, broken capillaries, and incessant muscle fatigue and twitching that has plagued me throughout my low Vitamin A diet.
I’ve tried eating berries and supplementing ascorbic acid (<350 mg/day) numerous times in the past and never saw a change in symptoms, but I was also eating a bunch of iron from red meat every single day. I’ve tried upping my ascorbic acid dosing to 350mg at least 4x a day alongside berries and my gums appear to be less sensitive after just a couple days of this, but we’ll see if that continues. I’m also trying to eat more salmon and other meat lower in iron, like pork.
I’ve been under a ton of stress from buying a home, moving, and dealing with repairs and managing new house problems in extreme weather, so that probably accelerated any existing problems I may have had with Vitamin C deficiency. My aerobic exercise routine also collapsed since starting to move, and I suspect that exercise was helping to keep my ceruloplasmin up, as well as red blood cell production and turnover.
Quote from ggenereux on August 27, 2021, 6:19 amI have no idea as to why you are detoxing so severely. However, the rapid gum recession sounds like the classic symptoms of scurvy.
For a lot of reasons, I believe that scurvy is actually caused by vA toxicity. Here’s just one reason:
In 1757, the British began stocking their ships with a “portable soup.”[307] The “portable soup” consisted of “all the offals of oxen killed in London for use of the Navy” with salt and vegetables added in.[308] The soup, however, was dried so that it had the appearance of slabs of glue.[309] Although the “portable soup” was unappetizing, it was perfect for the navy because it had a shelf life of years.[310] In addition to the supplies stored at the beginning of each voyage, ships often traded for additional supplies in foreign ports and lands.[311] In particular, rice, wince and other hard alcohols were particularly valuable when trading.[312]
https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8852139/Mayberry.html?sequence=2
This “portable” soup was an absolute staple among British Navy and merchant ships for about a century when the incidence rate of scurvy was at its worst.
I’ve been recently researching the history of the determination of the root cause of scurvy being a vitamin C deficiency. There is actually incredibly weak evidence supporting that concept.
However, it was generally and slowly agreed that lemon juice was an effective preventative and treatment for scurvy.. My preliminary thinking on it is that it wasn’t so much the vitamin C content of the lemon juice that was responsible for its effect, rather it may have been its citral content.
Regardless of the true mechanism, that of vitamin C or citral, I think it would be worth trying lemon juice. From its use in the 18th century it appears that two spoonfuls a day was the dose used. At that dose the effects were seen in about two weeks.
Just a note re lemon juice: it is vary acidic and will damage tooth enamel. I have read that you should rinse your mouth and not eat anything or brush your teeth for 20 minutes after eating or drinking something acidic or it will wear away the enamel. Lemon/lime soft drinks were said to be especially bad.
@wavygravygadzooks, thanks for the great post that certainly rings a bell in my case. My exponential increase in gum recession happened on the carnivore diet. I was also getting cherry angiomas and broken capillaries. Iodine stopped the angiomas. My ferritin level has been high since my carnivore days and it is still high now. And I finally figured out the dosage of ascorbic acid to keep the blood blisters at bay: 1000 mg 3x/day. Any less and the blisters reappear. Magnesium resolved my muscle twitches and angina on exertion, and lately my muscles feel very strong, which is a welcome change.
I love red meat and have it trice daily but sometimes I wonder if this does me much good. Pork doesn’t work for me and in winter local chickens are supplemented with corn and suspiciously yellow. Fish never satiates me, so I don't have it often.
You mentioned hemochromatosis. Although I don't have it, I probably should do something with my iron disregulation. I get the AGE spots on my forearms and I wonder if iron (and vitamin A) are culpable. Lately they seem to be lighter which is a good news.
This is very very interesting. We currently have a few issues that have not resolved after 2.5 years low A, and while I feel like so many things have been helped by it (and I don't want to throw out the low A concept, at all), we need to try additional things. Case in point: bedwetting and urinary issues. We have literally tried everything over the years, and low A helped my frequency/urgency quite a bit. But it did not help my offspring, two of whom have been struggling a lot, one in the day, one in the night.
So, I saw a post on eatbeautiful.net about how the blogger healed her interstitial cystitis with a strict fruit elimination diet. Four weeks ago, we tried three things: eliminating fruit and "fruit like" foods as per her doctor's recommended protocol, began following his additional instructions for starch food combining (basically: no grains and tubers in the same meal), AND we stopped eating pork.
This may possibly be helping with some urinary issues, but it may also be just natural variation (plus the fact that sometimes "doing something...ANYTHING" has an effect); nothing definitive or miraculous for sure, and as another of my friends pointed out, this doctor offers no basis for his theories on fruit digestion (apart from common-sense, fruit-is-only-ripe-in-summer type thoughts). So no basis for a theory is definitely compelling for not even trying this; on the other hand, Megan over at Eat Beautiful has an extremely compelling story about her urinary problems going into complete remission using this approach, sooooo....desperate times call for desperate measures!
Anyway - short story long, I'm definitely not seeing miracles, AND my gums have gotten way worse recently. Could it be that I lowered our already-low vitamin C intake even lower, and that's why? I have never thought that I had issues with iron, but cherry angiomas, along with large yellow/brown skin patches have also come along with dietary changes over the years. (Could varicose veins be connected?)
I have recently started various mouthwashes because my mouth/gum tissue is so inflamed and receding. There is no basis for thinking this will help either, because it seems ridiculous that some mouthwashes could change my mouth flora after so many things over the years have not! But...again, desperate times...
I am VERY eager to hear more about your experiments, @wavygravygadzooks!
@sarabeth-matilsky, I had some memories of bladder irritation and urgency when I was living in Egypt and indulging in the Egyptian pitta bread. This made me think that certain bladder issues are caused by foods (wheat in my case). Maybe there is something your children consume that affects them; something that doesn’t seem problematic yet is causes symptoms. This is such a guess work! I remember from “my past life” being always extremely cold until I stopped drinking “healthy” green tea.
What's your concern with green tea nowadays? I've just recently thought about the effects it had on me. It makes me calm and grounded. But so many times I've gone with something to only learn later it wasn't to my benefit at all. Or at least it's better to have breaks.
Hi Guys!
One thing I've noticed about taking vitamin C is that I become a bit more apt to get emotional. Is this in my mind?
I'm not sure that this means it is the wrong thing to do, ha ha ha. There is hell to pay and sometimes I think we can't just go the easy route. However, we also need to live life, so there might be a "dull roar" level of vitamin C that I'd probably take.
As I've said before it does seem like iron overload is a thing in my family line.
My gingivitis is still hanging on, not worse. Slightly better in places, but especially hanging on in one spot.
Changing my brushing habits to brushing in a circular motion helps me get at the problem area better.
I hate that I probably have bad breath, it takes away my confidence.
I remember trying a herbal mouth wash but I haven't done it lately. It was pretty good though. I'm looking through what comes up on google, was it periobrite? Anyways, maybe I should try it again, just in case there are germs to kill. I don't remember it making my mouth sore, like pure h202 did.