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Rapid Gum Recession
While I don't subscribe to the acid/alkaline diet per se, I think it's pretty clear that our bodies have to work harder under certain conditions to maintain that narrow range of pH in the blood. Normally, a combination of respiration and kidney function would ensure that the pH of the blood and tissues remains where it needs to be, but if there's a lack of oxygen in the tissues to produce energy via the Kreb's cycle and you wind up using lactic acid instead, it sounds like you might have some degree of lactic acidosis, at least in the tissues. Also, if the body is constantly fighting an overwhelming level of acidity, it is likely to be sacrificing calcium, magnesium, and maybe other electrolytes to maintain the right pH, so you become depleted of minerals and your bones start falling apart in the long run (including the alveolar bone in the jaw, the erosion of which leads to periodontitis).
Things in my life that I think are contributing to an acid load include a history of oxalic acid and Vitamin A toxicity, stress (and the shallow breathing patterns that accompany it), too much of the wrong types of exercise, well water that is slightly acidic, and numerous dietary factors like high meat and starch intake, liberal salting of food, supplementing with magnesium chloride and ascorbic acid, etc.
Thanks for the EDS suggestion, but that doesn't seem to line up with my experience. It sounds like @sarabeth-matilsky might benefit from that info though!
I often wonder about acidity, especially lately since I have a major issue with calcified plaque at the line of my gums that I scrape daily. Incidentally, for the last few days I stopped eating rice. After two years of daily consumption, my appetite for rice disappeared. Now I am having meat (pretty fatty) and beans. The root vegetable season is over now so, once I finish the celeriac I still have in the fridge, I might do just meat and beans. But I am not sure if this will make any difference. I am just listening to the body which says: no rice for now.
I am not sure about the supplements as I have never really experienced amazing results from any of them. I think that meat and beans have a full compliment of nutrients, so what am I missing? Receding gums, tinnitus and angina...there must be a connection somewhere.
Let us know how the supplements work for you. Maybe you will find a solution to the receding gums. I look at mine often and am shocked to see their continuous demise.
Yeah, part of the reason I'm running so many ideas by you is that you seem to be struggling with some of the same stuff I am, including rapid plaque accumulation along the gumline. I know a lot of people on Smith's site have mentioned this happening when they switched to a low Vitamin A diet, but nobody seems to have an answer as to why. We know that Vitamin A is involved in the remodeling of bones, and we know that Vitamin A toxicity can lead to hypercalcemia. I don't know how similar the chemistry is, but we also know that oxalic acid is a calcium stealer and upsets potassium balance...maybe Vitamin A acts in a similar manner?
Certainly they are both acids...not that that tells you much about their behavior, but on the simplest level it makes me wonder if they both push the body towards an acidic state and lead to magnesium and calcium wasting. It sounds like Vitamin C supplements can contribute to acidosis in susceptible individuals, which might offer another piece of the explanation for you if there's any relevance to acidity idea.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on February 22, 2022, 12:12 pmYeah, part of the reason I'm running so many ideas by you is that you seem to be struggling with some of the same stuff I am, including rapid plaque accumulation along the gumline. I know a lot of people on Smith's site have mentioned this happening when they switched to a low Vitamin A diet, but nobody seems to have an answer as to why. We know that Vitamin A is involved in the remodeling of bones, and we know that Vitamin A toxicity can lead to hypercalcemia. I don't know how similar the chemistry is, but we also know that oxalic acid is a calcium stealer and upsets potassium balance...maybe Vitamin A acts in a similar manner?
Certainly they are both acids...not that that tells you much about their behavior, but on the simplest level it makes me wonder if they both push the body towards an acidic state and lead to magnesium and calcium wasting. It sounds like Vitamin C supplements can contribute to acidosis in susceptible individuals, which might offer another piece of the explanation for you if there's any relevance to acidity idea.
I used to have plaque along the gumline of my teeth, continuously most of my life. No amount of brushing would get rid of it. In 2003 to 2004 I had all my amalgam fillings removed (12 if I remember rightly) and replaced with composites. The plaque went, and has never come back. Don't know if this is helpful to anyone else...
@wavygravygadzooks 'push the body towards an acidic state and lead to magnesium and calcium wasting' ???? That doesn't make any sense to me and is the complete opposite of what I experience. Magnesium is one of the most alkaline minerals going, and calcium is also alkaline. So why would the body dump them if it was too acidic? In my case it doesn't, my body dumps magnesium and calcium when it is too alkaline. How do I know?.. I've been doing regular hair mineral analyses (2-3 times a year) since 2003, and for many years now I have had chronically low magnesium and calcium. No amount of calcium, magnesium and vitamin D supplements would raise them. Indeed, when I was taking higher amounts of these supplements, I was peeing them straight out again, even to the extent of peeing as white as milk (sorry if TMI). This, I used to think was due to the chronic lead poisoning that I suffer, but I now think has more to do with vit A toxicity. Since vit A suppresses the function of vit D, it makes no sense that it would lead to hypercalcemia, but maybe it does for some.
For several years now I have been measuring the pH of my urine first thing in the morning (with a pH strip). If it's slightly acidic (6.0 to 6.75) I know that's good, if it's alkaline (7.25 to 8.0), I know something's wrong and I'm going to feel like crap... So why does my body become too alkaline at times? I have worked out over the years that if I provoke the candida in my gut by starving it (low carb diet) or poisoning it (antifungals, probiotics, many plant foods have antifungal properties), then it mutates into it's pathogenic fungal form. The pathogenic form of candida thrives in an alkaline environment, and can secrete ammonia to aid it's own survival. Hence the host body has deal with the excess alkalinity that the ammonia creates.
I am now 22 months into my vit A detox. My urine pH is definitely taking a very slow trend towards more acidic. It makes me suspect that toxic, vit A laden bile dumped into my intestines by my liver is what has been making my body too alkaline in the past, via the mechanism I have explained above.
I just wanted to tell you that the blisters in my mouth are gone and my gums have improved very much since eating egg-yokes for VitA and Persimmons for Beta-carotene again. I also lowered my meat consumption and started to eat 1-2 cans of sardines with skin and bones as a mineral supplement. Maybe you should try to bring a little bit of Vitamin A in your diet again and see if that helps your gums.
@alastair, I had my very many amalgams removed 20 years ago by a biological dentist and that was followed by various detox regiments. But I do have 1 crown with a metal post, so it wouldn’t surprise me if this alone changes the pH in the mouth or…magnetism or something else, causing plaque build up. It seems to me that the plaque is related to the amount of meat I eat but I am not 100% sure. I probably could test this by going meat-less for a while which is a scary proposition. I love my meat and eat it trice a day.
@wavygravygadzooks maybe supplementing with quercetin, a zinc ionophore, might help.
‘some other nutrients from egg yolks and persimmon are necessary.’
Eggs are very high in choline.
Andrew Baird from fb vA toxicity site has been looking at this.
Difficult to get RDA for choline. Some people particularly susceptible to low amounts in diet due to PEMT SNPs meaning they can’t make it well.
I don’t know if choline important for gums. Eggs also contain other important nutrients that could be addressing a deficiency. Eggs are not just about vA. Seeing food as one dimensional is a mistake. Foods contain a mixture of both good and bad - helpful/non-helpful ingredients. No food is perfect.
I don't think I ever saw your post from a couple months ago about your gum problems improving by reducing meat and introducing eggs and persimmon. In my opinion, that helps to confirm my suspicion that the problem is caused by Vitamin A turnover in the mouth...by increasing Vitamin A intake and reducing meat intake, you have likely slowed or stopped the release of Vitamin A from storage in the tissues. Beata's experience seems to be similar, in that meat causes her to feel "dry" and probably contributes to her gum problems by encouraging Vitamin A turnover from storage in the tissues. I'm quite confident that my own gum problems are the consequence of Vitamin A dumping...they're certainly not from Vitamin A deficiency, and every nutrient I've tried supplementing just makes the problem worse, if it does anything at all.
How are your gums doing lately and what has your diet been like recently?
It's not hard to get enough choline from meat on a meat-based diet. As I've said plenty of times before, SNPs don't seem to affect people much when they eat a meat-based diet and minimize plant intake.
Isn't most of the research on SNPs looking at correlation? As in, SNP X appears to be associated with a higher likelihood of condition Y, but does not invariably cause condition Y.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think I have a problem with zinc utilization, and in general I think the use of plant substances like quercetin is a bad idea - your body has its own system for managing nutrient transport and those plant compounds are monkeying with that system.