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Risk of supplements
@henrik Yeah people love to blame Ray Peat when his style of diet goes wrong for them but they don’t take any responsibility themselves.
I think if you are already chronically ill and toxic then a Ray Peat style diet is a very bad idea, first you need to work on detoxing heavy metals, clearing chronic infections , getting rid of chemical exposure, detox procedures like coffee enemas, saunas, liver flushes, lymphatic drainage, mineral balancing otherwise it can be a disaster. They can cut down on PUFAs though of course.
@alexm I think maybe the biggest problem is that people are mainly critizicing the results of following his followers advice not Peats advice. For me the problem with my application of his advices was that it made me more toxic from vitamin A. I don't see though, except from that point (which indeed has been substantially problematic for me personally) how his advice is unsuitable. Avoiding Pufas, eating enough, especially carbs, avoiding toxic additives and drugs, taking care of digestion, getting proper rest and sunlight, eating mostly unprocessed foods - and he recomends infrared saunas btw. In general I dont understand how it would need any cleasning first to up your carbs and reduce your pufas to put it simply. Not sure what recomendations you are referring too. Im not sure if I'd recomend "liver flushes" though - it's highly likely to aggrevate the problem, especially if you are already suffering from high vitamin A levels. I also think the general emphasiz on eating to improve your metabolism is sound, even if Im not sure his approach is the most effective of acheiving it. Except liver flushes I thin all the methods you mention are at some point Peat approved. But I'll try not making this a rant and especially not a complete endorsement of all his ideas as I am very critical of some aspects of it especially its practical implications but not the general ideas and advices.
Also what do you mean there is nothing natural about his diet-approaches?? Im sorry if I nag about it but I dont get it really.
@henrik Yeah I think the Vitamin A toxicity is a big reason why it goes wrong for some people. What I meant is that if someone is already has chronic health issues from toxicity of heavy metals, chronic infections/poor micro biome etc. Then going high carb/high sugar pro metabolic will likely not end well for them, as sugar feeds pathogens and depletes minerals and b vits which they are already low in. Also if their system is already damaged and broken then they won’t be able to detox PUFA properly in the first place.
Btw I’m not against Ray Peat at all if you have mistaken that for me. I’ve just been in Costa Rica for a month and a half and got back a couple of days ago, I was following a Ray peat style diet for the whole time I was there, I don’t think anyone else on this forum is following a Ray Peat diet AFAIK.
I’m gonna write a full update on my experience there soon. But I found a Ray Peat style works much better there in the sun than it does in London, I also had the best gut motility and bile when I was there. 2-6 bowel movements a day firm dark brown stools no need to wipe and I was eating mainly just chocolate chip banana bread, ice cream, gourmet cookies, OJ, some meat occasionally.
What I meant about it not being natural, is pounding litres of milk and OJ everyday, tubs of ice cream, mexican cola etc is not natural. But now as you’ve mentioned possibly that might just be advice from his followers and not himself.
@alexm Hey, thanks for a very cool feedback. Im sometimes wary of making statements online as I have some experience with things getting hostile if people are not "in line with the party" (a Soviet reference..). I am not supposing much actually and I try not to make this into a peat commercial as I dont advocate people throwing them into that stuff and its not really what this forum is for. I do find it interesting though as I personally have incorporated the vitamin A toxicity thing into the bioenergetic point of view. I dont eat very Peaty according to many but then again as you said too, it seems mostly not to be in line with the forumstuff. I agree definately that those advices is not very natural or superhealthy. Not as bad as people intuitively would think though I must say. But Peat himself never adviced that at all. He does recomend a glass or two of freshly pressed organic orange juice from naturally ripened oranges and says on several occations (though I think he sometimes is symphatetic to some packaged ones but not too sure) that if you cannot get it in that condition its problably just as well to pass. I think it fits with what he also repeatedly mentions that its more prometabolic to live in more equatorial climates and he himself for long periods of time moved to central america (not only for that reason but that too). I think some of the problem - but now Im sort of off topic - is that he uses examples like mexican coke to demonstrate the prometabolic prosesses he is intrested in, f.ex by quoting that you get less fat from drinking coke then presumed due to the metabolic advantage. I interpret that as being to him an interesting example of the metabolic mechanisms in practice, not an invitation to gush mexican coke. IF you are to gush coke though I agree that its better to use coke with natural sugar then High fructose corn syrup. SO a lot of it makes sense form that perspective. Same with ice cream who just happens to be the way he discovered how to get rid of his migranes as far as I know.
I've had some similar experiences to what you describe. I need much more food in scandinavia then in say south america or north africa. I also in general do better in warmer climates. More directly Im not sure about the part where you mention high carb feeding the bacteria. In a way that is of course true as almost all lifeforms use glucose or ATP but it's like when you try to to starve candida of sugar. What happens then is it spawns to get sugar elsewhere and might penetrate the gut barrier and turn into a serious systemic infection because it gets its sugar anyway. But not saying everybody immediately does well on high carb. I guess Im not one of them actually - I need a combination of high protein and high carb but does well on low fat. I know that's in line with some of both Peat and the A detox ideas but its interesting . Its definetly true that to detox the PUFAs you need a better metabolic rate but I dont really see how upping the metabolism would be detrimental to that?? I am on board though with the increased demands for micronutrients, especially with white sugar and white rice. I find myself (at least until recently) that if I take to much of my carbs as white rice they suddenly become impossible to eat until I've eaten some potatoes. For me that points to me getting a B deficiency (btw Peat also emphasizes to up your B's and minerals when upping your metabolic rate even if its not the main focus)
I think the only thing thus Im not really agreeing with is the feeding pathogens as I have the same view there as with cancer. Instead of killing the pathogens (you cant really starve them very much anyway) its better to up the bodys own vitality to take care of it. I think pathogens mostly occures due to a weakness in the system. they are opportunistic. If we cut all atp of course they die its unfortunate that so do we 😛 but I enjoy talking about this as I personally as I said see this whole thing through a peaty lense even if I seem to not follow it.
@jiri I think most people who got Vitamin A toxicity have chronic infections like viruses, Candida, bacteria, mold which cause a NAD deficiency and NAD redox issues which both shut down ALDH. And most pathogens like bad bacteria and fungi produce acetylaldehyde, so when you drink alcohol there is more burden on ALDH and now you get symptoms from pathogens producing acetylaldehyde. From my experience it seems drinking alcohol exposes the pathogens that were hiding in your gut and now you have bad neurotransmitters symptoms and other unpleasant symptoms from drinking the alcohol.
It’s hard because a lot of supplements also feed pathogens like certain b vits, magnesium feeds biofilms, coq10 feeds Candida, and ATP/phosphorus powers pathogens. So your body down regulates ATP production to stop feeding the pathogens.
From what I’ve experienced now the body needs to be remineralised well with good macro minerals levels as shown on a HTMA, and good bile flow to deal with pathogens otherwise you just go round in circles with the antimicrobials and it’s much more painful. I’m skeptical about some of the antimicrobials herbs now as a lot of them aren’t good for the liver.
I also think daily coffee enemas or liver flushes are good for clearing out the pathogens.
For dealing with viruses it seems enhanced extended water fasting is a popular way and this is with EGCG, electrolytes and NAC. I think Monolaurin is also good in combination with enemas.
And obviously if you suspect any chronic bacterial or fungal infection then don’t go crazy with high iron foods/ red meat and zinc sups as that will just lower your copper to deal with then.
Amy Yasko found in her 20 years of work that the gut bugs are holding on to heavy metals, and when the pathogens are addressed and killed with antimicrobials, antifungals, probiotics she sees her patients excrete heavy metals. She also finds pathogens block potassium uptake and transport so once people address the pathogens she finds they are now able to tolerate potassium supps when before they couldn’t.
This Dr Robert Selig HTMA guy also says the pathogens are actually protecting you from heavy metals by holding them in place but in return your body has gone into hibernation and a downregulated state. And you know what happens from there…