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Risk of supplements
Quote from
Andrew B on April 11, 2023, 6:36 am
@jiri I do say to people who re introduce the eggs that anything increasing the detox like zinc, selenium and molybdenum supplements will need to consider stopping them if at all possible. I dont know if you were taking zinc and molybdenum whilst trying the 5 small eggs but perhaps it's worth stopping them before the eggs. It also seems that despite the necessity to some of the B vitamins a reduction to lowest level possible might also rein in the detox when introducing eggs. @jaj also had a strong response to the phosphatidylcholine even without supplements which might indicate choline was pretty low.
@jiri I do say to people who re introduce the eggs that anything increasing the detox like zinc, selenium and molybdenum supplements will need to consider stopping them if at all possible. I dont know if you were taking zinc and molybdenum whilst trying the 5 small eggs but perhaps it's worth stopping them before the eggs. It also seems that despite the necessity to some of the B vitamins a reduction to lowest level possible might also rein in the detox when introducing eggs. @jaj also had a strong response to the phosphatidylcholine even without supplements which might indicate choline was pretty low.
Audrey has reacted to this post.
Oh no! I’m sorry you’ve had another seizure, @jaj. 💛☹️ Totally makes sense you’d need a break from stress of all sorts.
Thank you for sharing an update with us. It’s good to hear about what you have been learning and focusing on during the past little while. Sounds like exactly the right things. 😊 It’s exciting to see you fit the puzzle pieces together! But sending you all the “no pressure” vibes at this time, of course...I’m glad to hear you’re prioritizing your recovery and respecting what you need right now, even though I totally understand the frustration regarding limitations.
Food worry is such a difficult block! I feel for you on that one, too, but I believe strongly it is an area that “unlocks intuition” in a major way when open; so I am excited for you to experience more flow and freedom there. 😃
I hope the gentleness of the spring season invites you into a time of deeper relaxation and rest, Jenny. 😊🌸🌷☀️🐝🌻🍀
Oh no! I’m sorry you’ve had another seizure, @jaj. 💛☹️ Totally makes sense you’d need a break from stress of all sorts.
Thank you for sharing an update with us. It’s good to hear about what you have been learning and focusing on during the past little while. Sounds like exactly the right things. 😊 It’s exciting to see you fit the puzzle pieces together! But sending you all the “no pressure” vibes at this time, of course...I’m glad to hear you’re prioritizing your recovery and respecting what you need right now, even though I totally understand the frustration regarding limitations.
Food worry is such a difficult block! I feel for you on that one, too, but I believe strongly it is an area that “unlocks intuition” in a major way when open; so I am excited for you to experience more flow and freedom there. 😃
I hope the gentleness of the spring season invites you into a time of deeper relaxation and rest, Jenny. 😊🌸🌷☀️🐝🌻🍀
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OrionRachelAudreyNavnHermesPJDeleted userAndrew BDonald
@puddleduck you are so encouraging!
@puddleduck you are so encouraging!
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puddleduckAudreyNavnHermes
Quote from
Henrik on April 11, 2023, 2:24 pm
Quote from
Jenny on April 11, 2023, 4:52 am
Thank you to everyone who has linked me on this with useful information. I really appreciate it. I’ve had another seizure (third one in a year) and this time it was clearly triggered by too much time on iPad/stress, so I’m having to take a rest from research and academic thinking! Very frustrating. I need to calm down my cell danger response (CDR), which I think underlies everything (i.e. mitochondrial health). Cures for CDR: PC and stress reduction. Cell membrane health is really important here, as mitochondria have the same membranes as the cell. Patricia Kane work very pertinent. Obviously choline deficiency is an utter and complete disaster. Stress reduction is key though. I’m doing the Alex Howard RESET programme and I’m realising that worry about food has become another potent trigger of the stress response for me. I’m using his ‘stop’ process. If mitochondria in CDR then they can’t do their other task - energy production - they are otherwise engaged (Robert Naviaux). This messes up metabolism in so many ways, including poor NAD recycling. Ties in with AlexM comments. NAD is needed for ALDH to process vA. Someone called Meri is doing so really useful work on this. Correlates very well with my thread on NAD deficiency. All coming together...but I can’t do much atm!!
Sorry to hear about the stress-response. I can assure I know how stress makes everything worse, and the A detox making your body more suseptible to stress. I don't know if its something you are aware of but personally - I at least want to mention it since you talk about stress and energy-production - grounding has been what has gotten me through. So far I've seen noone having any negative effects by it when detoxing so it seems safe though of course I cant KNOW this. It has peer-reviewed research to back it up - it both reduces cortisol and andrenalin and helps balance hormones in general. You have to do it more then just a few hours a day to get any real results though. So it probably would mean buying some sleeping mats etc.
Quote from
Jenny on April 11, 2023, 4:52 am
Thank you to everyone who has linked me on this with useful information. I really appreciate it. I’ve had another seizure (third one in a year) and this time it was clearly triggered by too much time on iPad/stress, so I’m having to take a rest from research and academic thinking! Very frustrating. I need to calm down my cell danger response (CDR), which I think underlies everything (i.e. mitochondrial health). Cures for CDR: PC and stress reduction. Cell membrane health is really important here, as mitochondria have the same membranes as the cell. Patricia Kane work very pertinent. Obviously choline deficiency is an utter and complete disaster. Stress reduction is key though. I’m doing the Alex Howard RESET programme and I’m realising that worry about food has become another potent trigger of the stress response for me. I’m using his ‘stop’ process. If mitochondria in CDR then they can’t do their other task - energy production - they are otherwise engaged (Robert Naviaux). This messes up metabolism in so many ways, including poor NAD recycling. Ties in with AlexM comments. NAD is needed for ALDH to process vA. Someone called Meri is doing so really useful work on this. Correlates very well with my thread on NAD deficiency. All coming together...but I can’t do much atm!!
Sorry to hear about the stress-response. I can assure I know how stress makes everything worse, and the A detox making your body more suseptible to stress. I don't know if its something you are aware of but personally - I at least want to mention it since you talk about stress and energy-production - grounding has been what has gotten me through. So far I've seen noone having any negative effects by it when detoxing so it seems safe though of course I cant KNOW this. It has peer-reviewed research to back it up - it both reduces cortisol and andrenalin and helps balance hormones in general. You have to do it more then just a few hours a day to get any real results though. So it probably would mean buying some sleeping mats etc.
puddleduck, Retinoicon and 2 other users have reacted to this post.
puddleduckRetinoiconAndrew BDonald
Quote from
Alex on April 16, 2023, 4:04 pm
@jiri
I do remember you mentioning you said you had mercury issues contributing to your health issues, mercury can block the CBS enzyme, as can CBS gene mutations, which can both cause issues with sulfur processing. CBS is the most critical enzyme in the methyl cycle. Excess taurine can also increase H2S (hydrogen sulfide) which is also bad. So be careful with the sulfur amino acids supps. They can feel good at first but then a few months later if your sulfur levels become too high from CBS issues and your transsulfuration pathway being down it can put you into a constant high adrenaline flight or flight state, POTS, high serotonin etc. If someone is high sulfur it takes a couple of months cutting out all high sulfur supplements and foods to get their sulfur levels down to normal and they need to take molybdenum too.
https://feelgoodbiochem.com/chapter-5/ You can read more here if you scroll down to taurine.
@jiri
I do remember you mentioning you said you had mercury issues contributing to your health issues, mercury can block the CBS enzyme, as can CBS gene mutations, which can both cause issues with sulfur processing. CBS is the most critical enzyme in the methyl cycle. Excess taurine can also increase H2S (hydrogen sulfide) which is also bad. So be careful with the sulfur amino acids supps. They can feel good at first but then a few months later if your sulfur levels become too high from CBS issues and your transsulfuration pathway being down it can put you into a constant high adrenaline flight or flight state, POTS, high serotonin etc. If someone is high sulfur it takes a couple of months cutting out all high sulfur supplements and foods to get their sulfur levels down to normal and they need to take molybdenum too.
https://feelgoodbiochem.com/chapter-5/ You can read more here if you scroll down to taurine.
Quote from
Alex on April 16, 2023, 4:06 pm
Removed posted early by accident
Removed posted early by accident
Quote from
Alex on April 16, 2023, 4:16 pm
Quote from
Jiří on April 8, 2023, 12:04 pm
@alexm it is very tricky if you don't know what are you doing.. For example if you have adrenal fatigue later stages where your cortisol is not high, but low. What you need to do is completely shut down. No stimulants of any kind no any herbs, no adrenal glandulars, no simple sugars, no stimulating minerals like copper no music, no exercise, no movies or games that give you adrenalin etc. and when you do that. You will feel what you should feel and that is extreme fatigue. So your body can finally just rest. This extreme rest can last months or even year. Who will do that? Especially when they don't know what is going on.. So they will continue seek stimulants to feel some energy. So for them taking things like copper, B vitamins, all kinds of herbs etc. will feel great, but that doesn't mean it is good for them.. When you follow supplement and diet program from ARL for example after hair tissue mineral analysis it is exactly like that.. They will give you calming minerals and you will feel crazy fatigue. But that is good for you. You need to rest and not eat chocolate, drink redbull and go jogging.. I think very small group of people can feel what is really good for them. I mean long term. Of course when you have to do something. There is no problem to stimulate your body so you can do what you have to do, but it has nothing to do with long term health.. Most people are just hamsters running in a wheel who are just trying to stimulate their body so they can keep running in the wheel and they will never learn what their body really needs to be well rested and to have real energy not energy from elevated adrenalin and cortisol.. I know all of this and still it is very hard for me to do what my body needs. I always start. I am nice to my body and next thing I know couple months later I am exhausted doing stupid things with health in the toilet again saying to myself wtf I am doing..
Yeah I do agree with this to an extent but sometimes people have chronic infections or severe heavy metal toxicity causing the adrenal fatigue and in those cases I don’t think resting will do much. I also think in some cases if the body has been knocked out by so much toxicity then it adapts to slow energy and stops fighting, so you may need something stimulatory to wake up metabolism. People like Ray Peat say everything is just hypothyroidism he may have a point.
Quote from
Jiří on April 8, 2023, 12:04 pm
@alexm it is very tricky if you don't know what are you doing.. For example if you have adrenal fatigue later stages where your cortisol is not high, but low. What you need to do is completely shut down. No stimulants of any kind no any herbs, no adrenal glandulars, no simple sugars, no stimulating minerals like copper no music, no exercise, no movies or games that give you adrenalin etc. and when you do that. You will feel what you should feel and that is extreme fatigue. So your body can finally just rest. This extreme rest can last months or even year. Who will do that? Especially when they don't know what is going on.. So they will continue seek stimulants to feel some energy. So for them taking things like copper, B vitamins, all kinds of herbs etc. will feel great, but that doesn't mean it is good for them.. When you follow supplement and diet program from ARL for example after hair tissue mineral analysis it is exactly like that.. They will give you calming minerals and you will feel crazy fatigue. But that is good for you. You need to rest and not eat chocolate, drink redbull and go jogging.. I think very small group of people can feel what is really good for them. I mean long term. Of course when you have to do something. There is no problem to stimulate your body so you can do what you have to do, but it has nothing to do with long term health.. Most people are just hamsters running in a wheel who are just trying to stimulate their body so they can keep running in the wheel and they will never learn what their body really needs to be well rested and to have real energy not energy from elevated adrenalin and cortisol.. I know all of this and still it is very hard for me to do what my body needs. I always start. I am nice to my body and next thing I know couple months later I am exhausted doing stupid things with health in the toilet again saying to myself wtf I am doing..
Yeah I do agree with this to an extent but sometimes people have chronic infections or severe heavy metal toxicity causing the adrenal fatigue and in those cases I don’t think resting will do much. I also think in some cases if the body has been knocked out by so much toxicity then it adapts to slow energy and stops fighting, so you may need something stimulatory to wake up metabolism. People like Ray Peat say everything is just hypothyroidism he may have a point.
Henrik has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on April 17, 2023, 8:35 am
@alexm "eah I do agree with this to an extent but sometimes people have chronic infections or severe heavy metal toxicity causing the adrenal fatigue and in those cases I don’t think resting will do much."
I agree and in fact that was my case for sure.. I wasted like 6 years of doing nothing and my health was worse and worse.. Good post with the sulfur. The worst thing I did with sulfur is when I didn't know much about anything, but I just watched some videos on how everyone is low in sulfur and how MSM can fix basically everything so I started taking it.. I felt like complete shit. Depleted all my molybdenum etc. in the process for sure..
What I never understood or didn't like about Ray Peat is that he didn't care about the cause of low thyroid and how to fix it naturally. He was just all about taking hormones which makes no sense.. Low thyroid is in 99% of cases due to some other issue and not the cause. It's the cause in autoimmune Hashimoto(which I maybe have, but hopefully not) or when you have direct damage to the thyroid like cancer or some neck injury.. Only in scenario like that people should take thyroid. Peat basically the same mindset like mainstream doctors. Average endocrinologists also don't care at all why someone has low thyroid. Just take pills and fuck off basically..
@alexm "eah I do agree with this to an extent but sometimes people have chronic infections or severe heavy metal toxicity causing the adrenal fatigue and in those cases I don’t think resting will do much."
I agree and in fact that was my case for sure.. I wasted like 6 years of doing nothing and my health was worse and worse.. Good post with the sulfur. The worst thing I did with sulfur is when I didn't know much about anything, but I just watched some videos on how everyone is low in sulfur and how MSM can fix basically everything so I started taking it.. I felt like complete shit. Depleted all my molybdenum etc. in the process for sure..
What I never understood or didn't like about Ray Peat is that he didn't care about the cause of low thyroid and how to fix it naturally. He was just all about taking hormones which makes no sense.. Low thyroid is in 99% of cases due to some other issue and not the cause. It's the cause in autoimmune Hashimoto(which I maybe have, but hopefully not) or when you have direct damage to the thyroid like cancer or some neck injury.. Only in scenario like that people should take thyroid. Peat basically the same mindset like mainstream doctors. Average endocrinologists also don't care at all why someone has low thyroid. Just take pills and fuck off basically..
Hermes has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Henrik on April 17, 2023, 9:34 am
I sort of agree but also disagree. I think a bit of the problem was how people interpreted his answers. I dont think what you say is wrong as much as a bit tilted. He said that most people shouldnt take any suplements at all and recomended upping the metabolism by pro-metabolic eating, walks in nature, art and a generally flexible lifestyle that promotes creativity (he did after all have a degree in literature and pursued painting). He also said that most people if they were supposed to use hormones like pregnenelone or progestereone should only do a short burst of it to possible reset the HPA axis and shake it out of perpetual stress mode. Its true though that he recommened it for terminally ill patients. I think he's thoughts are ok but that it came about in a way very open to being used as a conventional fix. I also felt the emphasis wasnt that much on the causes but I think when I think about it that its because he didnt try to stear conversations he was invitied to take part in. I know he didnt enjoy the forum anyway as he said so.
If anything I tend to just reinterpret vitamin A as an anti-metabolic agent long term and as such its just a detail. Im not sure though if all of his advice is so applicable. He did warn against eating to much liver and to stay away form polyphenols and betacaroteens and thats sensible. SOrry if this sounds too apologetic but still I feel he gets misrepresented. I should add that he's main emphasis was on reducing PUFA mostly due to their anti-thyroid effect so in his writing he definately mainly focus on causes.
I sort of agree but also disagree. I think a bit of the problem was how people interpreted his answers. I dont think what you say is wrong as much as a bit tilted. He said that most people shouldnt take any suplements at all and recomended upping the metabolism by pro-metabolic eating, walks in nature, art and a generally flexible lifestyle that promotes creativity (he did after all have a degree in literature and pursued painting). He also said that most people if they were supposed to use hormones like pregnenelone or progestereone should only do a short burst of it to possible reset the HPA axis and shake it out of perpetual stress mode. Its true though that he recommened it for terminally ill patients. I think he's thoughts are ok but that it came about in a way very open to being used as a conventional fix. I also felt the emphasis wasnt that much on the causes but I think when I think about it that its because he didnt try to stear conversations he was invitied to take part in. I know he didnt enjoy the forum anyway as he said so.
If anything I tend to just reinterpret vitamin A as an anti-metabolic agent long term and as such its just a detail. Im not sure though if all of his advice is so applicable. He did warn against eating to much liver and to stay away form polyphenols and betacaroteens and thats sensible. SOrry if this sounds too apologetic but still I feel he gets misrepresented. I should add that he's main emphasis was on reducing PUFA mostly due to their anti-thyroid effect so in his writing he definately mainly focus on causes.
Quote from
Alex on April 17, 2023, 9:44 am
@jiri Amy Yasko the methylation expert, from the website I sent you about sulfur, says in 20 years of working with 1000s of sick people she found that thyroid issues are usually from chronic bacterial infections.
Yeah there is nothing natural about Ray Peats pro metabolic diet, or the stuff that is suggested like drugs and supplements.
https://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#CBS%20(Cystathionine%20Beta%20Synthase)%20Explanation%20and%20Generic%20Plan%20of%20Action This is actually a much better post about CBS and sulfur than the one I first posted but it’s very complicated.
@jiri Amy Yasko the methylation expert, from the website I sent you about sulfur, says in 20 years of working with 1000s of sick people she found that thyroid issues are usually from chronic bacterial infections.
Yeah there is nothing natural about Ray Peats pro metabolic diet, or the stuff that is suggested like drugs and supplements.
https://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#CBS%20(Cystathionine%20Beta%20Synthase)%20Explanation%20and%20Generic%20Plan%20of%20Action This is actually a much better post about CBS and sulfur than the one I first posted but it’s very complicated.
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