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Risk of supplements
Dangit! Is there a way to link this thread to the Antidotes discussion thread? I think there is pertinent info here.
Quote from Jiří on April 4, 2023, 3:22 amGrass fed red meat has basically ideal fatty acid profile. Mostly saturated with monounsaturated fats with small amount of omega 3 and 6. That is all omega 6 your body needs. Once you start eating a lot of grains, nuts, seeds etc.. you start to accumulate PUFA fats in tissues which overtime will cause issues.. You can learn more about this topic from Raymon Peat Articles. He did a lot of research on this topic.. https://raypeat.com/articles/
@jessica2 sunflower, soy, canola etc. oil are the worst fats that you can ingest. Even olive oil that have much lower omega 6 content is not ideal.. Your PUFA(omega 6 and 3) intake should be under 10 but ideally under 5% of your calorie intake.. Which basically nobody has that low PUFA intake only people who are on really strict diet like Grant or people on Carnivore or Fruitarians or some bodybuilders eating only rice, oats, egg whites, very lean meats... Yes mainstream will tell you omega 6 are good and healthy fats and saturated fats are bad. But in reality you want to consume mostly monounsaturated fats and avoid PUFA fats like it's a poison..
Hi @jiri. I plan to post what I think about Ray Peat on the Antidote thread. As far as getting a sufficient amount of w6 and w3, I think for some of us at least myself anyway, we may have been affected at the cellular level to where we may need more of the LA/ALA to replenish what has been damaged and as @puddleduck has pointed out, it is imperative to get cold pressed, organic unadulterated oils. Not refined, shelf-stable, rancid oils. A second variable, some people have an impaired delta 6 desaturase enzyme (due to stress, auto-immune issues, maybe zinc or vitamin deficiency, nobody really knows why) so the LA/ALA is not able to convert to the "derivatives" and therefore they may find it very beneficial to take EPO for GLA and eat fish for the EPA, DHA. I am assuming Grant did not have this conversion issue and he was able to get all the EFA's from the small number of nuts he consumed plus the trivial amounts he consumed in the meat and olive oil.
Now when I am thinking abut it. That bamboo extract makes me constipated due to silica dioxide content. I look at my other supplements and almost all of them have silica in them.. Ray Peat was talking about this that a lot of people take a lot of supplements and they have issues just from the other ingredients in the capsules.. Because if something has for example 100mcg of the mineral like selenium that is crazy small amount. So basically everything in that capsule is some filer.. I have to admit that I am some kind of "supplement junkie" because I do believe balancing micronutrients is the key and I do believe that I will not get enough of the key things just from the diet especially if I don't eat gluten, dairy, try to limit oxalates etc. etc.. But at the same time I know that all those pills many times with even not ideal forms of the micronutrient can do more harm than good sometimes.. I also think that it is good source of stress for me to constantly think about this and what should I take etc.. It's hard to balance this supplement thing.. Even if I just stop taking anything. I can't delete my memory. So I would constantly think like "Hm so I am eating this, but I don't have this micronutrient in my diet at all. I should take some supplement for that etc.." I am 36. At some point I will just give up on all of this and will do whatever like "normal people". Just eat/take what feels good in the moment and try to enjoy the time I have left here at least somehow.. At this point I still believe that I can fix my body. So I can function and feel good much longer, but like I said if I am 45 and still stressing about supplements and getting nowhere basically then I am done with this..
Quote from Jiří on April 5, 2023, 10:54 pmNow when I am thinking abut it. That bamboo extract makes me constipated due to silica dioxide content. I look at my other supplements and almost all of them have silica in them.. Ray Peat was talking about this that a lot of people take a lot of supplements and they have issues just from the other ingredients in the capsules.. Because if something has for example 100mcg of the mineral like selenium that is crazy small amount. So basically everything in that capsule is some filer.. I have to admit that I am some kind of "supplement junkie" because I do believe balancing micronutrients is the key and I do believe that I will not get enough of the key things just from the diet especially if I don't eat gluten, dairy, try to limit oxalates etc. etc.. But at the same time I know that all those pills many times with even not ideal forms of the micronutrient can do more harm than good sometimes.. I also think that it is good source of stress for me to constantly think about this and what should I take etc.. It's hard to balance this supplement thing.. Even if I just stop taking anything. I can't delete my memory. So I would constantly think like "Hm so I am eating this, but I don't have this micronutrient in my diet at all. I should take some supplement for that etc.." I am 36. At some point I will just give up on all of this and will do whatever like "normal people". Just eat/take what feels good in the moment and try to enjoy the time I have left here at least somehow.. At this point I still believe that I can fix my body. So I can function and feel good much longer, but like I said if I am 45 and still stressing about supplements and getting nowhere basically then I am done with this..
This is why I dont (practically) do supplements.. 😉 its a PITA.
Last summer I bought pycnogenol (I think it was) because the health food store lady talked me into it, she said its so good for skin etc. Okay, I tried it, but after a few days I lost interest, and stopped. Something felt slightly off in me. So weird! It just felt off. I listened to that. I still have the pills in my closet...lol
You unbalance something and has to balance it with another supp and so on.. endless 😉
And I am a big fan to listen to my body, and if I do a lot of pills, with different things in them, my body get all confused maybe, I cant FEEL anymore. I dont want to end up there. I want to be able to feel. Clear feeling.
With food its such a different thing. We get natural cravings for something we need, be it fat, protein, some other nutrients.. I think that is how the body is supposed to function. Not get all messed up in its natural ways with lots of supplements.
I have seen several friends getting so lost on that, not getting healthier, but worse, but still using lots of supplements, not being able to stop them. Its like a mental addiction almost.
@jessica2 reading back through this thread and seeing your comment about not liking grass fed beef. For the most part, I don’t like it either, but I have found the ground grass fed beef from Aldi to taste much less grass-fed-y with that weird smell. This has been consistent in multiple locations far from one another: Kansas City, Alabama, Orlando; so I assume they are sourcing it from similar producers across their footprint. I have thought too that the fat from the Aldi beef appears slightly less yellow than in other grass fed beef brands. For what it’s worth 🙂
From now I will try no supplements. Only some amino acids that I take like NAC, glycine, taurine etc.. I will stop taking even ascorbic acid since it looks like it really lowers copper transport protein ceruloplasmin and I have a lot of symptoms of low copper.. I was taking zinc, molybdenum and they lower copper as well.. I will start eating some oranges, broccoli, green peas and green beans. To get somewhat balanced micronutrients without any supps and will see what happens in couple of weeks.. It will be good to spend money on actual food instead of bottles with capsules.. I can even afford here and there some wild salmon etc. If I don't but ANY supplements... 😀
I think if you are not sensitive to supplements or not in tune with your body then they can be risky as you won’t realise if it’s doing you harm, but if you are sensitive and in tune with your body then you can know whether to stop or not if it doesn’t feel right.
I don’t believe in this getting worse before you get better and “pushing through” with the bad symptoms from supplements as many people advise anymore.
I do think you can experience some temporary discomfort/ minor symptoms in detox but you should still be getting the impression that things are improving each time you are taking the supplement. If symptoms from a supplement feel instinctively wrong or if the symptoms are extreme and feel like it’s causing you harm then you shouldn’t continue with that.
@alexm it is very tricky if you don't know what are you doing.. For example if you have adrenal fatigue later stages where your cortisol is not high, but low. What you need to do is completely shut down. No stimulants of any kind no any herbs, no adrenal glandulars, no simple sugars, no stimulating minerals like copper no music, no exercise, no movies or games that give you adrenalin etc. and when you do that. You will feel what you should feel and that is extreme fatigue. So your body can finally just rest. This extreme rest can last months or even year. Who will do that? Especially when they don't know what is going on.. So they will continue seek stimulants to feel some energy. So for them taking things like copper, B vitamins, all kinds of herbs etc. will feel great, but that doesn't mean it is good for them.. When you follow supplement and diet program from ARL for example after hair tissue mineral analysis it is exactly like that.. They will give you calming minerals and you will feel crazy fatigue. But that is good for you. You need to rest and not eat chocolate, drink redbull and go jogging.. I think very small group of people can feel what is really good for them. I mean long term. Of course when you have to do something. There is no problem to stimulate your body so you can do what you have to do, but it has nothing to do with long term health.. Most people are just hamsters running in a wheel who are just trying to stimulate their body so they can keep running in the wheel and they will never learn what their body really needs to be well rested and to have real energy not energy from elevated adrenalin and cortisol.. I know all of this and still it is very hard for me to do what my body needs. I always start. I am nice to my body and next thing I know couple months later I am exhausted doing stupid things with health in the toilet again saying to myself wtf I am doing..
Thank you to everyone who has linked me on this with useful information. I really appreciate it. I’ve had another seizure (third one in a year) and this time it was clearly triggered by too much time on iPad/stress, so I’m having to take a rest from research and academic thinking! Very frustrating. I need to calm down my cell danger response (CDR), which I think underlies everything (i.e. mitochondrial health). Cures for CDR: PC and stress reduction. Cell membrane health is really important here, as mitochondria have the same membranes as the cell. Patricia Kane work very pertinent. Obviously choline deficiency is an utter and complete disaster. Stress reduction is key though. I’m doing the Alex Howard RESET programme and I’m realising that worry about food has become another potent trigger of the stress response for me. I’m using his ‘stop’ process. If mitochondria in CDR then they can’t do their other task - energy production - they are otherwise engaged (Robert Naviaux). This messes up metabolism in so many ways, including poor NAD recycling. Ties in with AlexM comments. NAD is needed for ALDH to process vA. Someone called Meri is doing so really useful work on this. Correlates very well with my thread on NAD deficiency. All coming together...but I can’t do much atm!!
I hope you feel better, Jenny!