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Salt
I want to add this bit of salt to the discussion. On the net there circulates the notion, I believe originally proposed by a certain Frank McManus, that salt (in amounts either deficient or in high amounts thought to be ideal) is the biggest contributor to health -just like many of us here believe that vA is, or is at least a great part of the equation.
I attach a short interview that I found on the Rae West website. Rae West is a conspiracy researcher, so I approach his work with “a pinch of salt”.
As an addendum, Himalayan salt is fluoride-laden. But sea salt is micro-plastic-laden. Which would you choose?
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Quote from Raul on February 16, 2023, 10:17 amI want to add this bit of salt to the discussion. On the net there circulates the notion, I believe originally proposed by a certain Frank McManus, that salt (in amounts either deficient or in high amounts thought to be ideal) is the biggest contributor to health -just like many of us here believe that vA is, or is at least a great part of the equation.
I attach a short interview that I found on the Rae West website. Rae West is a conspiracy researcher, so I approach his work with “a pinch of salt”.
As an addendum, Himalayan salt is fluoride-laden. But sea salt is micro-plastic-laden. Which would you choose?
Also, Grant mentions that salt is indispensable in one of his interviews.
Do you know what sort of quantities of salt he is talking about? He talks about increasing his salt intake but gives no indication of how much he was originally consuming and how and to what level he has increased it.
Must admit salt hasn't acted as a game changer for me.
i remember him mentioning 17grams of salt for a grown male adult to produce the amount of hydrochloric acid required to digest all food properly. does that makes sense, considering he's advocating for more? how much do You consume? he says that salt is the Only source of chloride in the diet. is that true, do you know? i personally cannot think of other sources other than tap water, but that's chlorine... different. in terms of sodium, it Is available in food. take quenepa, the fruit, for instance, available here in the caribbean.
One of the last lines in that attached document says "there is no natural source of sodium and chloride"? Has that person ever heard of meat?! WTF
People on plant-based diets often need extra salt if they're not consuming enough muscle meat. But there are plenty of stories of people eating meat-only diets without added salt (or at least with extremely minimal added salt) and doing great, the most obvious example being Owsley "The Bear" Stanley.
Ask yourself, what animals seek out salt and mineral licks? It's the herbivores, not the carnivores. And where do they most often get it? They eat salt/mineral laden soil at "licks". My understanding is that the "salt wars" and dependence on supplemental salt among humans began after agriculture became widespread and there was a greater dependence on plant foods. Coastal people would have abundant access from seawater/sealife though, but inland people subsisting largely on plant foods would be starved for salt.
There does seem to be good evidence to support higher salt intake leading to better health outcomes in modern societies, but that's probably because they're all eating a bunch of plants. Humans evolved to be carnivorous, then eventually created tools that enabled us to subsist on a diet that included more cooked plants...but when you just eat a bunch of meat and minimal amounts of plant material the body tends to get everything it needs, including sodium and chloride (as well as choline, zinc, and everything else people are "discovering" they're deficient in when they become toxic with Vitamin A).
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on February 16, 2023, 12:51 pmOne of the last lines in that attached document says "there is no natural source of sodium and chloride"? Has that person ever heard of meat?! WTF
People on plant-based diets often need extra salt if they're not consuming enough muscle meat. But there are plenty of stories of people eating meat-only diets without added salt (or at least with extremely minimal added salt) and doing great, the most obvious example being Owsley "The Bear" Stanley.
Ask yourself, what animals seek out salt and mineral licks? It's the herbivores, not the carnivores. And where do they most often get it? They eat salt/mineral laden soil at "licks". My understanding is that the "salt wars" and dependence on supplemental salt among humans began after agriculture became widespread and there was a greater dependence on plant foods. Coastal people would have abundant access from seawater/sealife though, but inland people subsisting largely on plant foods would be starved for salt.
There does seem to be good evidence to support higher salt intake leading to better health outcomes in modern societies, but that's probably because they're all eating a bunch of plants. Humans evolved to be carnivorous, then eventually created tools that enabled us to subsist on a diet that included more cooked plants...but when you just eat a bunch of meat and minimal amounts of plant material the body tends to get everything it needs, including sodium and chloride (as well as choline, zinc, and everything else people are "discovering" they're deficient in when they become toxic with Vitamin A).
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on February 16, 2023, 12:51 pmOne of the last lines in that attached document says "there is no natural source of sodium and chloride"? Has that person ever heard of meat?! WTF
People on plant-based diets often need extra salt if they're not consuming enough muscle meat. But there are plenty of stories of people eating meat-only diets without added salt (or at least with extremely minimal added salt) and doing great, the most obvious example being Owsley "The Bear" Stanley.
Ask yourself, what animals seek out salt and mineral licks? It's the herbivores, not the carnivores. And where do they most often get it? They eat salt/mineral laden soil at "licks". My understanding is that the "salt wars" and dependence on supplemental salt among humans began after agriculture became widespread and there was a greater dependence on plant foods. Coastal people would have abundant access from seawater/sealife though, but inland people subsisting largely on plant foods would be starved for salt.
There does seem to be good evidence to support higher salt intake leading to better health outcomes in modern societies, but that's probably because they're all eating a bunch of plants. Humans evolved to be carnivorous, then eventually created tools that enabled us to subsist on a diet that included more cooked plants...but when you just eat a bunch of meat and minimal amounts of plant material the body tends to get everything it needs, including sodium and chloride (as well as choline, zinc, and everything else people are "discovering" they're deficient in when they become toxic with Vitamin A).
you misquote me. i admit there are sources of sodium. chloride is what i doubt there are valuable sources of, and like i imply, i might be mistaken about this, and ask for clarification. according to the attached source, meat, which is what you suggest, is meager, if, like the aforementioned proponent of high salt ingestion says, you want to reach 17 grams of it. also, maybe i should have bee more precise, but this is intended for people who, while including it in the diet, think beyond solely meat.
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@wavygravygadzooks carnivores are getting sodium mostly from blood not from muscle meat. There are carnivores who are quiting carnivore diet because they can't stay hydrated even if they use crazy amounts of salt. You don't understand that eating freshly killed animal with blood and all its fluids, glycogen in meat/liver etc.. is completely different than doing some stupid "carnivore" diet on muscle meat from supermarket.. And do you understand that carnivores don't sweat? Therefore they are not losing up to 1tsp of salt per hour like people do when they work or exercise in summer heat and sweat a lot? I am sorry, but you are not carnivore animal LOL.
100 grams of blood would contain about 1 gram of salt? is that correct? if so, to reach the 17 grams of salt recommended by the author -which, note, is the reason i'm pointing this out- you would have to drink 1.7 liters of blood? the chinese, for example, eat coagulated pieces of pork and chicken blood. less than 50 grams of it per serving (approximately). the masai, as far as i know, are big consumers of blood. what is their life expectancy?
i do understand what you claim i do not. if you propose to eat liver, why do you subscribe to this forum? it is an honest question, not a challenge to offend you, so i would like an honest answer, because that might clarify some things for me.
by the way, some of the biggest (and more famous) proponents of carnivore, the so-called “leaders”, subscribe to that “stupid” carnivore that you mention. i'm talking about shawn baker, mikhaila perterson, the anderson family, etc.
also, considering that sweat is an important detox avenue, i would only surmise that the inability to sweat would be counterproductive. are you suggesting that carnivores do not need to detoxify? even if the carnivore diet were ideal, that notion seems absurd.
again, i tsp of salt is 4 grams, more or less. does that account for the 17g that the aforementioned author suggests?
I'm not misquoting you, I'm objecting to the idiot that wrote that document you attached who suggested that there are no natural sources of sodium and chloride. Muscle meat, the stuff you can buy at any grocery store, is the greatest natural source of sodium and chloride.
Salt (sodium chloride) is approximately 60% chloride, 40% sodium. In 17 grams of salt (which is clearly excessive), you would have 10.2 grams of chloride. If there are 4 milligrams of chloride per gram of meat (as you quoted), then a pound of meat (450 grams), would contain 4 milligrams/gram x 450 grams = 1,800 milligrams of chloride = 1.8 grams of chloride.
James DiNicolantonio wrote an entire book about salt intake (The Salt Fix). He arrived at a general recommendation of 3-5 grams of salt per day (for non-carnivore consumers). That's 1.8-3 grams of chloride, which you could get from 1-2 pounds (450-900 grams) of meat. Most people should be eating at least 1 pound of meat per day, and I can easily eat over 2 pounds of meat per day. Thus, it would appear you don't need to eat salt or drink blood to get enough chloride (or sodium), even on a mixed foods diet, so long as you eat a pound of meat per day.
I never recommended eating liver...not sure where you got that from.
Who's the "stupid" carnivore I mentioned? Paul Saladino? If you're talking about Saladino, most of the strict carnivore community is distancing themselves from him because he's lost his mind.
Are you implying that you won't sweat (and therefore won't detoxify anything) if you don't eat salt? That's just patently false. For an interesting anecdote, I would again refer you to Owsley who apparently was a dancer who sweated his ass off and yet was better off than his fellow dancers who ate a bunch of salt.