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Sun exposure
On the subject of sun exposure, I have been thinking that the benefits can probably be described by an inverted U-shaped curve. Too much sun? Sunburn. Too little sun? Your vitamin D levels drop too low, and Shannon has explained that the sun helps in the detoxification process of vitamin A. So there's two benefits you're missing out on if you don't get sun. The time of day is also important. I've read that UVB is particularly high between midday and 4pm. Then the composition of the light changes in favour of UVA. There is also more red light in the sun in the mornings and evenings, which has a different benefit to UVB.
Someone on the Ray Peat forum posted this great study, here's the abstract (those who stayed in the sun the longest had the best protection against all-cause mortality):
We aimed to conduct a narrative review of the rapid advances in knowledge regarding sun exposure and all-cause mortality. Data support the hypothesis that sun exposure avoidance is a major risk factor for all-cause mortality in adjusted analysis (age, income, education, marital status, smoking, and comorbidity). This was caused by an increased risk of death due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and noncancer/non-CVD. However, the increased life span among those with high sun exposure naturally results in an increased prevalence of cancer death. In addition, sun exposure increases the incidence, but is related to better prognosis of skin cancer. The new findings indicate that there is a need for modification of guidelines regarding sun exposure. They may also add to our knowledge regarding the increasing incidence of diabetes mellitus and increased mortality among non-Caucasians in western countries. According to the present knowledge, in a low solar intensity region we should aim for sound and safe sun exposure habits, especially for those at increased risk of CVD or noncancer/non-CVD.
Study: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/pp/c6pp00316h/unauth
The sun is your friend. And don't put sunscreen on to protect yourself (it contains substances that can leach into your brain and stay there for up to ten years, according to Andrew Huberman).
Quote from Hermes on August 18, 2023, 7:40 amDo you think nutritional yeast is safe or does it contain astaxanthin? There is astaxanthin in some yeasts, that's why I ask. Also, I've had glutathione IV treatment before and yes, it contained astaxanthin as well as vitamin C. Argh.
I don't think nutritional yeast would have astaxanthin unless the medium it was grown in had astaxanthin, or if it were added. The yellow urine from Nutritional Yeast is more likely from the Riboflavin.
Regardless of what color the carotenoid is, it normally gets metabolized to something yellow (or, gets diluted enough to look yellow if, heavens forbid, it makes it out unchanged).
For me, the nutritional yeast would have offending compounds like Niacin at too high a level for my detox systems to accommodate. I prefer to get the "vitamins" I know I need like Thiamine, Folate, and Biotin directly, and at doses I can control.
Quote from Hermes on August 18, 2023, 8:27 amOn the subject of sun exposure, I have been thinking that the benefits can probably be described by an inverted U-shaped curve. Too much sun? Sunburn. Too little sun? Your vitamin D levels drop too low, and Shannon has explained that the sun helps in the detoxification process of vitamin A. So there's two benefits you're missing out on if you don't get sun. The time of day is also important. I've read that UVB is particularly high between midday and 4pm. Then the composition of the light changes in favour of UVA. There is also more red light in the sun in the mornings and evenings, which has a different benefit to UVB.
Someone on the Ray Peat forum posted this great study, here's the abstract (those who stayed in the sun the longest had the best protection against all-cause mortality):
We aimed to conduct a narrative review of the rapid advances in knowledge regarding sun exposure and all-cause mortality. Data support the hypothesis that sun exposure avoidance is a major risk factor for all-cause mortality in adjusted analysis (age, income, education, marital status, smoking, and comorbidity). This was caused by an increased risk of death due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and noncancer/non-CVD. However, the increased life span among those with high sun exposure naturally results in an increased prevalence of cancer death. In addition, sun exposure increases the incidence, but is related to better prognosis of skin cancer. The new findings indicate that there is a need for modification of guidelines regarding sun exposure. They may also add to our knowledge regarding the increasing incidence of diabetes mellitus and increased mortality among non-Caucasians in western countries. According to the present knowledge, in a low solar intensity region we should aim for sound and safe sun exposure habits, especially for those at increased risk of CVD or noncancer/non-CVD.
Study: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/pp/c6pp00316h/unauth
The sun is your friend. And don't put sunscreen on to protect yourself (it contains substances that can leach into your brain and stay there for up to ten years, according to Andrew Huberman).
No disagreement that UVB and Infrared are crucial (and even visible blue at certain times of the day).
I'm also pretty sure UVA is even important to destroy a certain amount of compounds.
But, the problem comes when the body (or, liver) can pump out enough carotenoids/retinoids to the skin to "present" them for destruction / metabolism. The artifacts for some of us can likely reach a quality of life impacting level.
Believe me, I would prefer to go "fast", or as fast as possible. I do not like the restrictions I have to go thru during this detox.
I used to eat a lot of nutritional yeast but I stopped it as it colored my teeth yellow and somehow it felt bad in the end, my gallbladder acted up from it too. I got very addicted to it! Bad sign, I got addicted to collagen powder too. I stopped it all. After all its not a natural food, I rather eat foods now that have natural B vitamins in them. Beans have lots, and they are calming to me.. also sunflower seeds and meat etc etc. lots of vitamin B naturally 🙂
Quote from Shannon on August 18, 2023, 9:53 amQuote from Hermes on August 18, 2023, 8:27 amOn the subject of sun exposure, I have been thinking that the benefits can probably be described by an inverted U-shaped curve. Too much sun? Sunburn. Too little sun? Your vitamin D levels drop too low, and Shannon has explained that the sun helps in the detoxification process of vitamin A. So there's two benefits you're missing out on if you don't get sun. The time of day is also important. I've read that UVB is particularly high between midday and 4pm. Then the composition of the light changes in favour of UVA. There is also more red light in the sun in the mornings and evenings, which has a different benefit to UVB.
Someone on the Ray Peat forum posted this great study, here's the abstract (those who stayed in the sun the longest had the best protection against all-cause mortality):
We aimed to conduct a narrative review of the rapid advances in knowledge regarding sun exposure and all-cause mortality. Data support the hypothesis that sun exposure avoidance is a major risk factor for all-cause mortality in adjusted analysis (age, income, education, marital status, smoking, and comorbidity). This was caused by an increased risk of death due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and noncancer/non-CVD. However, the increased life span among those with high sun exposure naturally results in an increased prevalence of cancer death. In addition, sun exposure increases the incidence, but is related to better prognosis of skin cancer. The new findings indicate that there is a need for modification of guidelines regarding sun exposure. They may also add to our knowledge regarding the increasing incidence of diabetes mellitus and increased mortality among non-Caucasians in western countries. According to the present knowledge, in a low solar intensity region we should aim for sound and safe sun exposure habits, especially for those at increased risk of CVD or noncancer/non-CVD.
Study: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/pp/c6pp00316h/unauth
The sun is your friend. And don't put sunscreen on to protect yourself (it contains substances that can leach into your brain and stay there for up to ten years, according to Andrew Huberman).
No disagreement that UVB and Infrared are crucial (and even visible blue at certain times of the day).
I'm also pretty sure UVA is even important to destroy a certain amount of compounds.
But, the problem comes when the body (or, liver) can pump out enough carotenoids/retinoids to the skin to "present" them for destruction / metabolism. The artifacts for some of us can likely reach a quality of life impacting level.
Believe me, I would prefer to go "fast", or as fast as possible. I do not like the restrictions I have to go thru during this detox.
if one is not used to the sun its wise to go slow for sure, and build a sun callus and gradual detox. The good thing about being a sun addict is, that you tolerate it so well as you spent so much time in the sun all your life. It only become a issue if you was absent from the fire ball for longer amounts of time /accumulation of vitamin A (?)
Quote from Inger on August 19, 2023, 12:23 amQuote from Shannon on August 18, 2023, 9:53 amQuote from Hermes on August 18, 2023, 8:27 amOn the subject of sun exposure, I have been thinking that the benefits can probably be described by an inverted U-shaped curve. Too much sun? Sunburn. Too little sun? Your vitamin D levels drop too low, and Shannon has explained that the sun helps in the detoxification process of vitamin A. So there's two benefits you're missing out on if you don't get sun. The time of day is also important. I've read that UVB is particularly high between midday and 4pm. Then the composition of the light changes in favour of UVA. There is also more red light in the sun in the mornings and evenings, which has a different benefit to UVB.
Someone on the Ray Peat forum posted this great study, here's the abstract (those who stayed in the sun the longest had the best protection against all-cause mortality):
We aimed to conduct a narrative review of the rapid advances in knowledge regarding sun exposure and all-cause mortality. Data support the hypothesis that sun exposure avoidance is a major risk factor for all-cause mortality in adjusted analysis (age, income, education, marital status, smoking, and comorbidity). This was caused by an increased risk of death due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and noncancer/non-CVD. However, the increased life span among those with high sun exposure naturally results in an increased prevalence of cancer death. In addition, sun exposure increases the incidence, but is related to better prognosis of skin cancer. The new findings indicate that there is a need for modification of guidelines regarding sun exposure. They may also add to our knowledge regarding the increasing incidence of diabetes mellitus and increased mortality among non-Caucasians in western countries. According to the present knowledge, in a low solar intensity region we should aim for sound and safe sun exposure habits, especially for those at increased risk of CVD or noncancer/non-CVD.
Study: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/pp/c6pp00316h/unauth
The sun is your friend. And don't put sunscreen on to protect yourself (it contains substances that can leach into your brain and stay there for up to ten years, according to Andrew Huberman).
No disagreement that UVB and Infrared are crucial (and even visible blue at certain times of the day).
I'm also pretty sure UVA is even important to destroy a certain amount of compounds.
But, the problem comes when the body (or, liver) can pump out enough carotenoids/retinoids to the skin to "present" them for destruction / metabolism. The artifacts for some of us can likely reach a quality of life impacting level.
Believe me, I would prefer to go "fast", or as fast as possible. I do not like the restrictions I have to go thru during this detox.
if one is not used to the sun its wise to go slow for sure, and build a sun callus and gradual detox. The good thing about being a sun addict is, that you tolerate it so well as you spent so much time in the sun all your life. It only become a issue if you was absent from the fire ball for longer amounts of time /accumulation of vitamin A (?)
Sun callous. That sounds like Dr Jack Kruse talk! 🙂
I'm all in on the sun. Head-to-toe bronzed at the moment. And, likely close to 60 VitD levels (without supplementation)
I just can't handle the detox metabolites that flood my system right now. And, I know...I am assuming that is what is going on. But, there is plenty of evidence this is occurring.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3814709
When the body slows down its ability to transport out to the skin, I probably can handle more. This may actually be what Grant was experiencing. My skin seems to be able to handle it (though, I do have a worrisome patch of skin I am getting checked out :-/ )
It's the rest of my body...brain, liver...that cannot.
Sunbathing depletes B vitamins particularly the active form of riboflavin (FAD) and the active form of folate (5-MTHF). Sufficient riboflavin (RDA levels, not supplementary megadoses) and folate (RDA levels or lower, avoid folic acid) along with supplemental taurine (~500mg per day) and lecithin (for phosphatidylcholine) can help to provide liver support for metabolizing retinoid decomposition products after sunbathing. In Australia there's an energy drink called V that contains riboflavin and 500mg taurine, perfect for a day at the beach!
To add to what I wrote, I try to avoid folic acid which means minimising bread consumption and strictly avoiding supplements containing folic acid. Instead I rely on legumes for thiamine and folate.
Folic acid (which doesn't exist in nature) is bad for everyone but is particularly problematic for anyone with subpar liver function. Studies show that the majority of people now have UMFA (unmetabolized folic acid) in their blood. Most pregnant women taking a prenatal supplement have significant serum levels of UMFA.
UMFA can create a 5-MTHF deficiency due to inhibiting enzymes involved in folate metabolism similar to how B6 supplements can create a P5P deficiency. Folic acid was given to cancer patients in the 1940s and it made their cancer worse. UMFA causes cancer and most likely contributes to autism when pregnant women have UMFA in their blood over the course of their pregnancies.
Folic acid safety studies were done on rats, the problem with that is rat livers can metabolize folic acid far better than human livers can.
Quote from tim on August 19, 2023, 5:50 pmSunbathing depletes B vitamins particularly the active form of riboflavin (FAD) and the active form of folate (5-MTHF). Sufficient riboflavin (RDA levels, not supplementary megadoses) and folate (RDA levels or lower, avoid folic acid) along with supplemental taurine (~500mg per day) and lecithin (for phosphatidylcholine) can help to provide liver support for metabolizing retinoid decomposition products after sunbathing. In Australia there's an energy drink called V that contains riboflavin and 500mg taurine, perfect for a day at the beach!
I'm not sure I could still keep up this year. It's my first, but I'm hoping next year I can.
I just cannot take the headaches and the tinnitus spikes!!! And, I am pretty sure the main detox route out is plugged trying to get whatever the liver is exporting out.
I think I need to do the lecithin to increase the highway capacity out thru the livers bile / stool route (or 'Phase 3'), but I cannot do it while there is so much peripheral noise from sun degradation.
At least that's my theory.
My second thought is to add more Vitamin E. I have a feeling some of this is from cell walls disintegrating and dumping their contents. Lecithin takes too long and hurts me in the interim right now.
Yeah vitamin A depletion has been a long term thing for me. My vitamin A intake has been low for 4.5 years. I haven't had a serum retinol test for years but my health keeps improving so I'll just stay on a low intake.
My nose used to burn very easily from sun exposure. I knew how toxic sunscreen was so I mostly avoided it but had to use it on my nose if spending the day outdoors. I used to work as a horse trekking guide and I had a problem with cracked lips and nose sunburn. If I forgot to apply sunblocking lip balm I'd be in trouble the next day. Since beginning a low vitamin A diet I can spend hours in subtropical sunlight without any sunscreen and the only effect is tanned skin and a good night's sleep.
Most people here in Australia are afraid of the sun unaware that the downsides of not getting enough sun exposure are far more than the downsides of getting plenty of it. Melanoma affects sun avoiders at a similar rate to sun bathers. I'd say that lower vitamin A intakes are probably associated with a lower risk of skin cancer.
Lecithin is 3.5% choline by weight. I think it makes sense to supplement just enough to provide a boost to dietary intake rather than consuming anything more than that. I've been taking 4.8g of lecithin (~168mg of choline) for a while, I think that's an amount that would benefit most with little downside. We really want to minimise our physiological requirement for choline because some of what we consume gets converted into TMAO in the gut, especially when dysbiosis is present. Folate sufficiency reduces choline requirements. Reducing methionine/cysteine intake does too but I don't know enough about the health ramifications of doing that even though it's associated with longevity.
Liver/bile/gut function is complex, I think there can be instances where extra choline intake isn't helpful and it's hard to know when that is but my opinion is that a modest intake from lecithin will normally be beneficial.