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Quote from DareToBeNaive on December 26, 2018, 10:49 amQuote from Guest on December 25, 2018, 4:23 pmI believe it is the last primate study on this that showed that limiting calories from processed food extends life span, and not when restricting calories from whole foods.  I guess you will think that proves your point, but one does need more nutrients if loaded with toxins. The stuff they add to processed food is usually the worst form or a form that is harmful but that doesn't mean that all supplements are bad. If there is an imbalance then sometimes the only way is to supplement.  I have said it before - I was sick on a whole foods diet. Simply restricting vA and going organic might eventually fix my problem but how many more months do I have to suffer that way? If the body is toxic and not functioning right what makes you think it is going to be able to recycle nutrients or make ones that it needs?
So you already have that particular study (and many others) and your own bad experience with a "whole foods diet" as a proof . Whole foods and natural foods are so heavily promoted as "healthy" just for business. If you are in imbalance (or if ,as you say, body is toxic) supplementing will mess your chemistry even more. Best way to reset body chemistry is to fast or better, eat a "crappy" diet which is devoid of "nutrition" . It's is because too much nutrition is messing with our chemistry which requires too much work for the body and that requires extra calories also. I was thinking lately why fruitarians feel hungry and lose weight even on 3000+ calories ? Well I think it's exactly too much easily accessible "nutrition" that's doing that. Eating pure white sugar or pasta won't have that effect at all and it can only make you extra energetic.
What I took away from the primate study was that if you eat whole foods then calorie restriction didn't matter but if you ate crappy processed food which is full of toxins and fortified supplements then that increases lifespan because you are not consuming as much garbage (doesn't have anything to do with calories, only the amount of toxins from pesticides and fortification that is consumed)  You say whole food diets are bad - that is what Grant mostly eats (yes white rice is somewhat processed but not in the way pasta is or what I think of processed/packaged foods with more than one ingredient), what I used to eat, and what I eat now on a low vA diet.  What has changed is supplements being added to processed foods including milk and toxins sprayed or otherwise dumped into the environment. These toxins need nutrients to get rid of them.  I'll never buy that a diet of sugar and pasta is better than one that includes most of beans, fruits, veg, meat and minimally processed grains like white rice.  Of course people who eat just fruit are going to have problems, doesn't mean a more whole foods diet is unhealthy.  I don't think thousands of years of evolution prepared us to do our best on pasta. Besides, I have Celiacs so there is no way I am going to eat normal pasta (that has likely been fortified with iron) and get the gut wrenching pain, diarrhea and itchy rash I have in the past.
I am not blaming vegetables and fruits on my problems.  I never ate liver - yuck! and the amount of eggs I ate when I started having problems was very low.  I did eat a lot of dairy as a youngster (that is what my parents fed me) and I developed problems then. So I a not sure why I have problems but they began way before I at a whole foods diet - we had pizza, grocery store bread, candy, i.e. a SAD.  I then tried many diets including a whole foods diet and nothing has worked - what is supposed to work is getting the damn A out and that means a low vA diet and targetted molecules (nutrients) to help with the detox.
Quote from Mokus on December 25, 2018, 11:35 pmHi Liz
This is what I found from a brief search re endo:
Retinoic acid has the potential to suppress endometriosis development
://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
pmc/articles/PMC4521362/
Pathogenesis of Endometriosis: Roles of Retinoids and Inflammatory ...
Mokus
Thank you. I've found some studies myself also but it doesn't make any sense. Retinoids/RA fxxing up our bodies in so many ways but they want to use it as a "treatment" for endometriosis (i am referring to other studies as well now, i.e https://www.researchgate.net/publication/279731560_Pathogenesis_of_Endometriosis_Roles_of_Retinoids_and_Inflammatory_Pathways) based on some cell studies.
Insanity!! 😳 Fee
Hahaha darn phone. *feed me some RA rich milk products and my skin will break out with eczema and my endo will go nuts as in a lot of increased activity. I hope they dont take it to actual human trials 😳
Hi Liz
Have you read Dr G's duration paradox info re VA? So studies often showing positive results re VA in the short term but end up negative in the long term.
Thank you. I've found some studies myself also but it doesn't make any sense. Retinoids/RA fxxing up our bodies in so many ways but they want to use it as a "treatment" for endometriosis (i am referring to other studies as well now,
Best you can do is take of yourself.
Mokus
Quote from Guest on December 26, 2018, 6:08 pmQuote from DareToBeNaive on December 26, 2018, 10:49 amQuote from Guest on December 25, 2018, 4:23 pmI believe it is the last primate study on this that showed that limiting calories from processed food extends life span, and not when restricting calories from whole foods.  I guess you will think that proves your point, but one does need more nutrients if loaded with toxins. The stuff they add to processed food is usually the worst form or a form that is harmful but that doesn't mean that all supplements are bad. If there is an imbalance then sometimes the only way is to supplement.  I have said it before - I was sick on a whole foods diet. Simply restricting vA and going organic might eventually fix my problem but how many more months do I have to suffer that way? If the body is toxic and not functioning right what makes you think it is going to be able to recycle nutrients or make ones that it needs?
So you already have that particular study (and many others) and your own bad experience with a "whole foods diet" as a proof . Whole foods and natural foods are so heavily promoted as "healthy" just for business. If you are in imbalance (or if ,as you say, body is toxic) supplementing will mess your chemistry even more. Best way to reset body chemistry is to fast or better, eat a "crappy" diet which is devoid of "nutrition" . It's is because too much nutrition is messing with our chemistry which requires too much work for the body and that requires extra calories also. I was thinking lately why fruitarians feel hungry and lose weight even on 3000+ calories ? Well I think it's exactly too much easily accessible "nutrition" that's doing that. Eating pure white sugar or pasta won't have that effect at all and it can only make you extra energetic.
What I took away from the primate study was that if you eat whole foods then calorie restriction didn't matter but if you ate crappy processed food which is full of toxins and fortified supplements then that increases lifespan because you are not consuming as much garbage (doesn't have anything to do with calories, only the amount of toxins from pesticides and fortification that is consumed)  You say whole food diets are bad - that is what Grant mostly eats (yes white rice is somewhat processed but not in the way pasta is or what I think of processed/packaged foods with more than one ingredient), what I used to eat, and what I eat now on a low vA diet.  What has changed is supplements being added to processed foods including milk and toxins sprayed or otherwise dumped into the environment. These toxins need nutrients to get rid of them.  I'll never buy that a diet of sugar and pasta is better than one that includes most of beans, fruits, veg, meat and minimally processed grains like white rice.  Of course people who eat just fruit are going to have problems, doesn't mean a more whole foods diet is unhealthy.  I don't think thousands of years of evolution prepared us to do our best on pasta. Besides, I have Celiacs so there is no way I am going to eat normal pasta (that has likely been fortified with iron) and get the gut wrenching pain, diarrhea and itchy rash I have in the past.
I am not blaming vegetables and fruits on my problems.  I never ate liver - yuck! and the amount of eggs I ate when I started having problems was very low.  I did eat a lot of dairy as a youngster (that is what my parents fed me) and I developed problems then. So I a not sure why I have problems but they began way before I at a whole foods diet - we had pizza, grocery store bread, candy, i.e. a SAD.  I then tried many diets including a whole foods diet and nothing has worked - what is supposed to work is getting the damn A out and that means a low vA diet and targetted molecules (nutrients) to help with the detox.
That study actually proved my point that you need less calories from processed foods and can do just fine with calorie restriction while on the whole foods diet body is constantly struggling and becoming weaker. Also what do you and that study mean by processed foods? Most commercialized products are shit not because of pesticides but because almost all of them have supplements , powdered milk, eggs , carotenoids...and am tthat supplementation and fortification actually is what's making those foods unhealthy ...Whether it's done on purpose or not , well we'll maybe never know. I am talking about refined simple foods. I use flour and pasta without added iron or any other stuff. Ground meat and meat alone in general is processed food too. Also I think whole gluten intolerance thing is caused also by poisoning our body with vitA and other healthy foods. No ,body doesn't need our help to get rid of toxins. I have explained why. Targeted nutrients by your imagination will only mess and confuse your body chemistry even more. Vegetables and fruits are in my opinion the worst foods and funnily enough they are the most promoted ones?? No wonder that kids are terrified even by just looking at most of healthy foods let alone putting them in their mouths. Grant's diet is essentially processed food diet, white rice and meat. For the past three and a half months I have been eating a diet that's considered ",crappy" and "very unhealthy" by all health gurus and diet freaks out there and i have lots of energy, and my skin looks amazing. I have also noticed slight muscle gain without any excercise.
Quote from Guest on December 26, 2018, 11:39 am@DareToBeNaive I'm really interested in your theory of too much nutrition.
Do you have some links to share or maybe you can describe the 'crappy' diet you mentioned?
MMM
There is a list of foods that I eat in a thread about vitA /progress reports.
No . No links it's based on faith in innate intelligence that can be observed in kids and on some observations in my own life. I have also noticed that most "health unconscious" and homeless people have very good skin and that also is extra evidence that support my theory about "nutrition". They maybe do not live so long but it's because they are constantly outside where sunlight and cold weather are doing real damage. Sunlight and some cold exposure are beneficial but only when done very briefly. Anything more than that is destroying and aging our bodies with sunlight being much more destructive than coldness in my opinion.
It's funny I was telling my dermatologist friend about thi. We call it the homeless man paradox. They have pretty decent hairs and skin ( the ones that don't overdo drugs).
@DareToBeNaive It was me asking about your theory. That is definitely interesting.
I will continue on my path of intuitive eating without relying on vitamin data and "healthy/unhealthy aura" of foods.
I just wish I had access to unfortified white wheat flour which is illegal in Canada (Cannabis was legalized, but we can't have unfortified flour, pretty ridiculous)
Quote from Mokus on December 27, 2018, 12:43 amHi Liz
Have you read Dr G's duration paradox info re VA? So studies often showing positive results re VA in the short term but end up negative in the long term.
Thank you. I've found some studies myself also but it doesn't make any sense. Retinoids/RA fxxing up our bodies in so many ways but they want to use it as a "treatment" for endometriosis (i am referring to other studies as well now,
Best you can do is take of yourself.
Mokus
Hi Mokus,
Thank you for that link, I have not read it I think. Am going to now 🙂
I did come across the topic yesterday in one of Garrett's youtube videos 🙂 where he also brushed on the subject of hormone therapy actually making vit A in the body worse (dont remember his actual words) and also about a rat study where vit A intake caused permanent hormone issues in the animals that was not reversible. Hearing that made me think thank God I have stood my ground not accepting any hormonal treatment for my endo, but also oh shit I was using topical bioidentical progesterone for 2 years, high doses, as a form of "self meditation". But mostly, have I fxxed myself up permanently with my extremely healthy diet of daily eggs, butter, carrotts and a shitload of colorful fruit and veg?
If I have to go Grant style for 5 years I dont care!! I will beat this! And I am getting more and more convinced vitamin A is behind endometriosis as well as all other diseases already mentioned.
I've been on bio-identical thyroid medication and estradial for more than a year. I think Grant talked about them, but can't remember where to find his advice on the subject. Does he recommend going cold turkey? My current doctor will probably not be useful on trying to get off them if I need to.