I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Supplement suggestion from another site
Wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS.
I stumbled upon this herb two weeks ago and it is absolutely amazing.
I have tried every possible pharmacologic mechanism, herb, supplement under the sun by now. And even many pharmaceuticals.
And nothing comes close to this one.
I highly recommend it. In 4 years of research I haven’t found anything like it.
Optimal dose: 1-1.5g before first meal of the day.
You may find another dosing regimen more effective though.
But this herb is completely safe. No toxicity has been found in any of the studies on it.
What it does?
Inhibits enterohepatic reabsorption of bile acids. Thus increasing losses of VA via biliary excretion.
This also results in inhibited absorption of VA, as absorption is dependent on bile acids.
Also acts as a proton pump inhibitor thereby decreasing carotene comversion.
But it works. And it’s safe.
Here's the link https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/
I would be wary because the wording is a bit too sales pitch-like, but at this point, since I'm disappointed with what authorities have been telling us, I would say why not try it out for a few days to see for yourself. It is sold as a supplement you wouldn't be the first to use it.
We are all guinea pigs right now in the great vitamin/poison A study 😉
I have tried it as a bodybuilding supplement for joint pain and it works quite well for that
I have 2 tubs sitting but I haven't taken them since starting the VA free diet
I might soon
Ron
By the way, same post also recommends Capsaicin which is made from chili pepper. I would avoid that.
Thanks DoubleCapricorn,
Found some very positive comments at WebMD. These were mostly on relief of joint pain.
Convincing enough to get me to order some powder from VitaJing.
I'm interested to research the bile stuff you mentioned; anything to accelerate the detox makes sense to me. On the Health Extremist comment section, one person mentioned Lion's Mane, which I had used for something awhile back. There are comments on other sites that some people experience vivid dreams and headaches when using it. The same comment was made by one of the Cissus Q users. I thought that was odd. I wonder if the two have some common compound in them that could cause both of those in some people. I had mild, nagging headaches when using Lion's Mane, and a few vivid dreams as well.
It makes sense that Retinol toxicity could well be an aggravating factor when tissues are attempting to heal from joint injuries, surgery, excessive work-outs, and so on. Maybe that's the main underlying factor for all the great reviews of its effects.
Thanks for the heads-up, this sounds really advantageous to add to the low/zero A diet.
PubMed is packed with papers on CQ. This one from 2016 has a couple interesting comments in the abstract.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27279709
RESULTS:
The increase in the absolute weight was appreciable in the CQ-AE treated group. Similarly, with respect to bone parameters, a similar trend was seen. The mean bone density, strength, and calcium content were found to be highest in the group treated with CQ-AE compared to groups treated with other extracts. This study reveals for the first time that 3-ketosteroids are not linked to the beneficial activities on bone and highlights the need for extensive characterization of biological active principles from CQ L.
CONCLUSION:
In light of the above estimation studies, we believe that current standardization of Cissus extraction "3-ketosteroids" is incorrect. We also did not find any report suggesting the presence of androgenic steroids in this plant and hence the characterization based on "3-ketosteroids" is scientifically incorrect. This study highlights the insufficient understanding of biological active principles from CQ L. and underlines the need for extensive bioactivity guided studies.
So, it looks like they haven't identified how it does what it does. But a clue in the Results section is the anti-osteoporosis effect.
Here's a bit from the Health Extremist link comment section.
This is presently above my pay grade, but I'm going over to PubMed to research the references SK gives.
Does SK come over here to post?
SK. says
February 28, 2018 at 6:59 pm
Hey people, I don’t post a lot here anymore.
Just found something new in my research I’d like to share.
A way to accelerate expenditure and usage of all the retinol we’ve stored.
The method is induction of retinol metabolism.
How? A harmless and health contributing supplement.
Lion’s mane mushroom.
Lion’s mane boosts NGF up to 500%.
NGF in turns induces Retinol dehydrogenase
and Retinal dehydrogenase,
catalyzing Retinoic acid synthesis
and vitamin A expenditure.
Lion’s mane also activates FXR greatly which leads to induction of PXR-mediated CYP3A4 and Alcohol Dehydrogenase
(also functions as Retinol dehydrogenase).
For studies confirming all this, just google:
“Lions mane NGF”
“NGF retinol dehydrogenase” “NGF retinol”
“NGF vitamin a / retinaldehyde dehydrogenase”
“Lion’s mane ergosterol peroxide”
“ergosterol peroxide FXR”.
What I recommend you try as a curative solution is simply:
Minimize vitamin a intake.
No other supplements or drugs. Anything you use is more likely to prevent recovery than facilitate it. Even green tea prevents recovery.
Add Lion’s mane extract, from Mycelium.
That’s what I’ll be doing.
And this is the best recommendations I can give after researching this problem obsessively for 4+ years, on top of already having a technical background.
Reply
Ashley W says
March 2, 2018 at 10:28 am
Hello SK! It’s good to hear from you. I too was taking lions mane. I am feeling significantly better and decided on no supplemental support but I’m glad to know that that could have been helping. Maybe I will begin to take it again. I know it has amazing and clinically proven brain benefits which for me has been the most challenging of the effects from my Vit a toxicity. Please keep me posted on how you’re doing. How is everyone else? I’ve been thinking of you Julie. I hope your well.
Ashley
Interesting. I have read that lion mane is contraindicated for people with autoimmune as it could make things worse. It could be because of its interaction with retinol maybe causing a quick reaction
Here's a recent PubMed abstract on Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) increasing Retinol Dehydrogenase.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29217403
Transcriptome analysis reveals a positive role for nerve growth factor in retinol metabolism in primary rat hepatocytes.
Author information
- 1
- Department of Medical Research, E-Da Hospital, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Electronic address: ed105156@edah.org.tw.
- 2
- Department of Surgery, E-Da Hospital, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.
- 3
- Department of Medical Research, E-Da Hospital, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan; The School of Medicine for Post-Baccalaureate, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.
- 4
- Department of Medical Research, E-Da Hospital, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.
- 5
- Department of Surgery, E-Da Hospital, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan; The School of Medicine for Post-Baccalaureate, I-Shou University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan. Electronic address: ed105033@edah.org.tw.
Abstract
Up-regulation of nerve growth factor (NGF) in parenchymal hepatocytes with cholestatic injury has been previously demonstrated to exert hepatoprotective effects in an autocrine manner; however, the overall impact of NGF up-regulation remains elusive. This study aimed to profile the effects of exogenous NGF on cultured primary rat hepatocytes using transcriptome analysis. Total RNA was isolated from hepatocytes with and without 24 h of NGF exposure, and subjected to RNA enrichment by PCR and RNA sequencing procedures. Comparison of transcriptome profiles between control and NGF-stimulated hepatocytes demonstrated that NGF significantly up-regulated 10 genes and down-regulated 23 genes in hepatocytes.
Subsequent KEGG pathway enrichment analysis indicated that NGF significantly affected the retinol metabolism pathway via increased retinol dehydrogenase 16 (RDH16) expression. In a mouse model of bile duct ligation-induced cholestatic liver injury, NGF supplementation significantly enhanced RDH16 expression, whereas administration of anti-NGF neutralizing antibodies prominently decreased RDH16 expression in cholestatic livers, supporting the positive role of NGF in the regulation of RDH16 in diseased livers. In vitro study further demonstrated that NGF triggered de novo synthesis of RDH16 in primary rat hepatocytes, mainly through an NF-κB signaling pathway. In conclusion, this study demonstrates the up-regulation of RDH16 by NGF in cultured rat hepatocytes and mouse cholestatic livers, and provides novel insights on the mechanistic role of NGF in the retinol metabolism of livers.
I am pretty sure there is carotenoids in cissus