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The Seborrheic Dermatitis thread
Interesting topic, ALDH connection was/is being suspected in rosacea too.
For me low vitamin A diet reduced much the severity of seb derm, but it is still present. (Though I am probably still vit A toxic) I have also experienced flare-ups after antibiotics usages, so to support candida connection. Also apart candida it seems that H. Pylori produce aldehydes in big numbers too.
@jaj This is my third day on 100mg niacinamide (did not receive the nicotinic acid yet). I don’t know if this is an effect, or if it is just the vA dump fading away, but I feel better somehow. Noticeably I slept very deeply the last two nights, sleeping one hour more each time. Also I did not get a bout of depression.
That’s good news @ourania. I’ve been immersed in this topic for 48hrs now and I’m increasingly convinced of its significance because it explains so many things that I didn’t understand before. I feel in my gut this is very significant.
The issue is the ‘troublesome tryptophan’ pathway. If the body gets short of NAD then the emergency pathway is upregulated - the tryptophan de novo or kynurenine pathway. This ultimately should produce NAD, however, much can go wrong and toxic metabolites such as quinolinic acid can accumulate. This damages eyes and causes anxiety (both massive issues for me).
The nicotinic acid should down-regulate this pathway. However, if you have an upregulated NOX enzyme this may be ‘stolen’ and go to the unhelpful pathway and not where we want it to go. Therefore some people may need to calm NOX first. As NOX is upregulated by glutamate, and quinolinic acid leads to an increase in glutamate, it is easy to see how someone could get into a vicious cycle of NAD deficiency and accumulation of toxicity.
Hi @ourania that’s good news. Yes i think you are right. I’ve written bits in various places. I probably should do one thread bringing it all together. Although to a certain extent it’s still a ‘work in progress’. I’m pretty sure now of it’s significance. What shall I call it ‘we are all NAD deficient!!’ ‘NAD deficiency as a major issue for vA detox’ . I shall have a think!!
Edit: I started a thread called NAD deficiency.
@tim-2 Thanks for the feedback and glad that low vA got rid of your seb derm - tho yeah it could also be the herbs for the sibo ? Not sure. For me, no herbs, antibiotics or antifungal ever did anything.
So you have been 3 years low vA ? I've been low vA since june and so far I have to say that there is not any improvment at all sadly. I just done a serum vA and it's still "in range" at 2.03 ug/L despite low vA. I do not eat a very restrictive diet like Grant tho, I still eat low vA vegetable, olive oil, rice and lean meat, and I recently added 2eggs per day. But even with the eggs, its less than 1000IU vA per day and for the past 6 months it was much lower than that.
Did you document your journey / diet / seb derm evolution somewhere ? I would be curious to see what you eat etc.
Also, to answer your question about sebum and pach of seb derm - you can see the same thing in acne where people will have acne on SOME high sebum area but not all of them. I do believe that hypervA can be one cause of seb derm, but I doubt it's the only one. And I really do think that it's the aldheydes overload (that can cause hypervA) that will trigger seb derm. I could be wrong tho for sure.
Thyroid hormones being low (T3 for me) will def slow everything down. This is why I started using NDT and gut motility have been awesome since then. But it's obviously a consequence of something else, most likely liver conversion issue (T4 to T3) or since blood range are normal but urine are not, intracellular T3 could be low because of some sort of blockage at the membrane.
I do share your view on liver flush. No stones, but simply bile being excreted
@jaj Great update ! I think I might have some interesting data results that would fit what you're describing. Gonna answer on your thread !
Hi Mat
From your results I would ask why trptophan is high? Lack of cofactors could prevent kynurenine pathway and serotonin pathway running smoothly (B6 is a big issue for both, also B2 and magnesium for the former). High tryptophan and kynurenine would fit with this. Could mean the pathway is stuck and you aren’t making the emergency NAD required. This would fit with NAD deficiency and slow ALDH.
I would suspect you have a NAD deficiency going on. Also, I really think that low B6 could be an issue for you. Blocked NAD production AND poor running 6 delta desaturase?? All fingers seem to point to these things. Also low NAD availability means that glutathione isn’t recycled well.
You may well have an upregulated NOX that is stealing NADPH and then your body activates the de novo Tryptophan to NAD pathway (kynurenine pathway) but it’s stuck and you can’t make the required NAD.
Great diagram in this link of all the places B6 required in the kynurenine pathway (under tryptophan section). I really must work out how to post diagrams!! https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-B6
Can clearly see how not enough B6 equals a massive block. Too much tryptophan and kynurenine and not enough NAD.
Quote from Mat on February 20, 2022, 1:35 am@tim-2 Thanks for the feedback and glad that low vA got rid of your seb derm - tho yeah it could also be the herbs for the sibo ? Not sure. For me, no herbs, antibiotics or antifungal ever did anything.
Thanks Mat. The seb derm started improving before I took the herbs and while I still had SIBO.
So you have been 3 years low vA ? I've been low vA since june and so far I have to say that there is not any improvment at all sadly. I just done a serum vA and it's still "in range" at 2.03 ug/L despite low vA. I do not eat a very restrictive diet like Grant tho, I still eat low vA vegetable, olive oil, rice and lean meat, and I recently added 2eggs per day. But even with the eggs, its less than 1000IU vA per day and for the past 6 months it was much lower than that.
Yes exactly 3 years. Improvement isn't based on how long one is following a low vitamin A diet, improvement comes from lowering levels of retinoic acid. For many that takes years. Do you mean umol/L? If so then you can't expect that much improvement yet, you've still got Hypervitaminosis A and will have high levels of retinoic acid. Good, you shouldn't follow any kind of restrictive diet unless there is a very legitimate reason e.g. diagnosed celiac. You shouldn't eat two eggs per day though, cut egg consumption down to a few a week.
Did you document your journey / diet / seb derm evolution somewhere ? I would be curious to see what you eat etc.
Thread called Tim's Log. Also on my YT channel.
@tim-2 Yes sorry, umol/L so 581 ng/ml. When I started the low A in june, I was at 521 ng/ml - so I'm quite surprised since it's still at the same spot. I have zero benefit so far from the vA reduction. Despite the fact that yes I believe that hypervitaminosis A can cause SD, I'm really wondering if it does apply to me. I find it weird to have no benefit at all so far...
Diet is basically lean chicken/turkey/fish, sometime lean beef. White rice, potatoes. Olive oil. Low vA veggies (mainly white endives carrots and cabbage, peeled zucchini and cucumber, cauliflower, chinese cabbage, green bean, leeks onion and garlic, and sometime asparagus and fennel but rarely. Lemon water. And very recently, I added back eggs here and there (but was not for 6 months) - so very much low vA. I was also eating beans for that time but I stopped recently also.
I have tried the h2o2 and it seemed to improved it for a couple of days but after that somehow it stopped working... I feel I have tried all topical remedy on earth and none help. That's very discouraging honestly, I've been digging this rabbit hole for so long. That's the whole reason I went to study a biology and medicine master.
I have read several pages on your log and it seems that you benefited from low vA quite rapidly. Also several people on the same thread (I think it was @gary that was low vA for a year and commented in 2019 ?) were low vA for some time and didn't seemed to benefit about the seb derm ?
On another note, I have found this study : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1831657/
"Blood levels of vitamin E, polyunsaturated fatty acids of phospholipids, lipoperoxides and glutathione peroxidase in patients affected with seborrheic dermatitis"
In it you can see that people with SD have less vit E, and less of certain PUFA (mainly C20: 3 n-6, C20: 4 n-6 and C22: 6 n-3)
So I wondered if it could be due to the fact that delta 6 desaturase could be downregulated (cf my main theory about aldheydes etc at the start of the thread) and maybe low vit E because of some sort of excess free radical damage and/or (and I have found several paper that would also go in that direction) - seb dermatitis people seemed to have some malfunction in lipid metabolism.
Also, some form of high oxydativ stress environnement again (high GPX in the study)
So I have done several blood test (see below) and apparently, the PUFAS mentionned in the study where OK for me. But there is the high SOD, high GSH, low vit E and GPX is not high but at the high "normal range" - so clearly some form of oxydativ stress is present.
So based on this, I started to take a vit E supps 2 days ago and I feel that it worsen significantly my seb derm. Not sure it's not a coincidence yet, but I'm planning to keep using it for a week and assess then. I'm quite sceptical that vE deficiency is what caused my SD, and I eat olive oil everyday so I'm not sure how I could be deficient in vE.
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