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Thyroid T3/T4 transthyretin and retinol binding protein.
I know that some people are experience some setback symptoms and wondered if those people are also low thyroid. As when I've slid back on my vitamin A avoidance I've often noticed that taking some thyroid can mute issues (mostly inflamed sinus, eyes and headaches.)
I thought perhaps the extra vitamin A getting into the blood was countered as thyroid is involved in the creation of transthyretin.
Has anyone else looked into this option?
I have thought of testing this, I have tons of leftover thyroid of all types from experimenting in the past before low VA. But the cons of heart palpitations and insomnia that thyroid can give me, very hesitant.
Will you be testing this out more long term, how much are your dosing? NDT? T3? T4?
Levothyroxine (T4): 18 mcg
Liothyronine (T3): 9 mcg
2 x during the day with meals breakfast and lunch when I remember.
In hypothyroidism, both vitamin A and carotenoid metabolism are slowed down a lot. Vitamin A will take a lot longer to deplete than it would if thyroid function was normal.
This is one reason why going to extremes to avoid vitamin A in the diet is counterproductive. Restrictive diets are a bad idea for many reasons, one reason is that nutrient deficiencies or imbalances are much more likely to occur which will affect organ function, notably the liver and thyroid in regards to discussing thyroid function.
It's not something I would do myself but I think it's likely that taking thyroid hormone will speed up vitamin A metabolism and excretion.
I have hashimoto's and I have to say that just taking t4 slows down my metabolism because I end up with less t3 and a ton more t4 in the blood (probably due to the shutdown of the thyroid, which makes a bit of t3 as well). The only reason my doctor insists that I take it is so that my TSH looks better on a piece of paper, as my thyroid can still keep up with the demands, it just has to work overtime due to the antibodies that destroy the thyroglobulin molecules.
I stopped taking my medication a little over two months ago, and I'm doing way better. I have fewer hypothyroid symptoms, even though my TSH is like 4.0-5.0 instead of 2.0-2.5.
People have to distinguish between actual hypothyroidism (for which I do recommend medication) and subclinical hypothyroidism (which is basically elevated TSH with normal thyroid hormone levels). If your thyroid hormones, especially t3, are normal, taking medication won't do anything good for you.
The way the phenomenon works for subclinical hypothyroidism (at least in the thyroglobulin antibody case) is that TSH works as a workload signal to the thyroid, then the thyroid produces x amount of thyroglobulin as per the workload signal (which it then converts to t4 and some t3), but the antibodies destroy a certain amount of thyroglobulin, and you end up with less thyroid hormones than required. Your thyroid doesn't understand this just yet, as it thinks that it did its job once the thyroglobulin got pumped out. Once the pituitary gland becomes aware of the lack of hormones, it pumps more TSH to signal the thyroid to produce more, and only then does the thyroid understand what is going on and produces enough thyroglobulin to override the damage created by the antibodies. This is how you end up with elevated TSH but normal hormone levels. Yes, your thyroid is being put to work overtime, but that doesn't mean it can't keep up for now, or that medication will lessen the burden in a productive manner.
In short, just taking t4 is usually a terrible idea unless you're actually hypothyroid. And if you just want to take t3, then by all means. But that stuff is expensive as hell, and you should check your t3 levels to get an idea if it would even help.
Quote from tim on June 6, 2021, 3:53 amIn hypothyroidism, both vitamin A and carotenoid metabolism are slowed down a lot. Vitamin A will take a lot longer to deplete than it would if thyroid function was normal.
This is one reason why going to extremes to avoid vitamin A in the diet is counterproductive. Restrictive diets are a bad idea for many reasons, one reason is that nutrient deficiencies or imbalances are much more likely to occur which will affect organ function, notably the liver and thyroid in regards to discussing thyroid function.
It's not something I would do myself but I think it's likely that taking thyroid hormone will speed up vitamin A metabolism and excretion.
Thanks Tim. I like to avoid weird extremes too.
One thing I'd note is thyroid hormone itself used to be a part of the human diet before the FDA and other regulatory bodies (around the world following suite) mandated it removed it from the food supply. You'd find it in chicken necks or even things like burgers and sausages. I find it interesting that the same sorts of people who are putting extra vitamin A into the food chain, have also made an effort to remove thyroid from it.
Quote from BeefWizard on June 6, 2021, 5:16 amI have hashimoto's and I have to say that just taking t4 slows down my metabolism because I end up with less t3 and a ton more t4 in the blood (probably due to the shutdown of the thyroid, which makes a bit of t3 as well). The only reason my doctor insists that I take it is so that my TSH looks better on a piece of paper, as my thyroid can still keep up with the demands, it just has to work overtime due to the antibodies that destroy the thyroglobulin molecules.
I stopped taking my medication a little over two months ago, and I'm doing way better. I have fewer hypothyroid symptoms, even though my TSH is like 4.0-5.0 instead of 2.0-2.5.
People have to distinguish between actual hypothyroidism (for which I do recommend medication) and subclinical hypothyroidism (which is basically elevated TSH with normal thyroid hormone levels). If your thyroid hormones, especially t3, are normal, taking medication won't do anything good for you.
The way the phenomenon works for subclinical hypothyroidism (at least in the thyroglobulin antibody case) is that TSH works as a workload signal to the thyroid, then the thyroid produces x amount of thyroglobulin as per the workload signal (which it then converts to t4 and some t3), but the antibodies destroy a certain amount of thyroglobulin, and you end up with less thyroid hormones than required. Your thyroid doesn't understand this just yet, as it thinks that it did its job once the thyroglobulin got pumped out. Once the pituitary gland becomes aware of the lack of hormones, it pumps more TSH to signal the thyroid to produce more, and only then does the thyroid understand what is going on and produces enough thyroglobulin to override the damage created by the antibodies. This is how you end up with elevated TSH but normal hormone levels. Yes, your thyroid is being put to work overtime, but that doesn't mean it can't keep up for now, or that medication will lessen the burden in a productive manner.
In short, just taking t4 is usually a terrible idea unless you're actually hypothyroid. And if you just want to take t3, then by all means. But that stuff is expensive as hell, and you should check your t3 levels to get an idea if it would even help.
Cheers Beefwizard ( name 😀 )
I think as I've advanced in age I've developed some mild hypothyroidism. I'm aware that TSH is a relatively unreliable way to assess hypothyroidism (due to the things you've mentioned).
It used to get diagnosed by symptoms (temperature, pulse and the Achilles reflex relaxation test.) The introduction of labs introduces the veneer of rigor, but if you're still sick while the numbers say normal of course, you're still sick.
I've tried pure T3 but, it's good but very abrupt and short term. I don't think I have anything like Hashimoto's, T4 seems to be helpful. But the dose I gave is skewed in favour of T3 which seems to work pretty good.
Physiology is so complex and interconnected which is why I am very conservative with approaches to healing, I think we just need to understand what prevents the body from regulating itself properly and let it correct itself most of the time.
Yeah when small animals and small fish were part of the diet we would have got it. I tried to find out what form iodine from fish fillets is in but I'm still not clear.
My understanding is that if you get a large amount of thyroid in your burger it can create some very unpleasant symptoms?
I generally don't condone the use of medications either, but if someone is actually hypothyroid, their symptoms are too overwhelming and they can afford t3, they may as well take some until they find the cause. It's not like it has side effects other than overprescribing it to oneself. Gym junkies use it quite frequently if they don't want to stay natural but they don't want to nuke their endogenous hormone production either.
I really liked the book "hypothyroidism type 2" by Mark Starr and sort of feel like VA is one of the missing components he needs to complete the picture. What he is saying is that, just like diabetes there are two types of people: those who just aren't making enough thyroid (as in type 1 diabetes) and those whose cells are just not listening to hormones well (as in insulin resistance ie type 2).
I would guess LOL that both problems might be about VA, though, LOL.
He talks a lot about the problem of diagnosing and treating via testing vs via symptom. And he has lots of pictures.
Sometimes overweight isn't really about FAT as much as it is about myxedema. If people are loosing weight on lowered VA, I would wonder if they are loosing myxedema. Which would be kind of amazing.