Quote from Inger on December 13, 2023, 10:06 am

@janelle525 you really have gone through it too.. wow. I never fell for the Ray Peat thing, but most of the other things.

I was very thin eating a raw vegan diet, and also eating carnivore doing nicotine gums and coffee... Boah.. I felt I had so much power. But it could not last because I just pushed myself, my adrenals. How did I even do that without realizing it cant be good. I think when you are younger you kind of tolerate anything. Its only after many years that the pushing does not work anymore. I remember trying methylene blue too, and all kind of supplements and shit. I want touch that anymore. I dont want pushing, I want reality. If I am tired without any stimulants that is my reality and its allowed. It means I have to rest, darn. I cant believe how this need to function high speed all the times is so strong.

It almost feels like a death, to be totally naturally what you are. But it is kind of a sweet death. So real. It is called.. reality 😉

Quote from Jiří on December 13, 2023, 10:56 am

@janelle525  I think many things from Ray can be used short term to overcome some trauma. But long term it will most likely ruin your body, because it is unbalanced and it pushes the body in one direction.. I also never liked how Ray was fast recommending taking hormones like it is a candy and was never asking why for example thyroid is low in a first place.. I mean you can simply eat too little calories and if that is the case taking thyroid is just horrible for you.. Yeah eating sugar 10 times a day will bake you more sensitive to stress hormones, because you are constantly increasing insulin and lowering cortisol with sugar. So when you run out of sugar or you have some stress situation you can't handle that stress because you are very sensitive to it.. What I also never understood about Ray is that he is so anti estrogen, but fiber(soluble) is essential to help liver detox everything from toxins to hormones.. I think soy is not ideal food. but eating a lot of dairy and eggs with little fiber will make you more estrogenic than eating legume(fiber) heavy diet that's for sure and Ray looked somewhat estrogen dominant. in his older age. I think "cowboy diet" like Dr.Smith likes to call beef and beans diet is much better for most people than milk and orange juice. That's for sure..   

Quote from Hermes on December 13, 2023, 12:33 pm

There's certainly room for criticizing Ray Peat's ideas, and I agree with some of the sentiments, like how every problem seemed to boil down to a troubled thyroid. And yes, somehow you'd expect someone who took such meticulous care of his health to live longer, except that he actually lived longer than the US average (just for comparison: it's 73 years), so statistically he's already an outlier, having outlived his average peers by 13 years. From that perspective, 86 is a pretty impressive age. And yet, my grandmother also lived to be 93, her older sister was 95, and they never spent a day in their lives thinking about food and how it affects their health. My grandmother, like my mother, ate whatever she liked. And having been on this health journey for more than ten years, I have to say that's a pretty darn good guiding principle, assuming you're healthy. The moment you start to struggle, the principle is also compromised. So yes, I do feel conflicted about Ray Peat, but I also want to point out two things that hardly anyone to this day has acknowledged as problematic as he does:

1. Serotonin: Still mistakenly touted as the happy hormone responsible for good moods and uplifting thoughts. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ray Peat was the man who brought this to my attention. I don't know of anyone else who is as vocal about it. And I can tell you from experience that there's a world of difference between low and high serotonin. The world is both more pretty and more nasty when serotonin is low. It's like you can actually see. If I could turn back the clock, I'd tell my teenage version to get off the Prozac. Those were my wasted years.
2. Bacterial Endotoxin: Excess bacteria is a much bigger problem than the supposedly imbalanced gut microbiome. No one really knows what an ideal gut microbiome looks like; the microbiome is in constant flux, adapting to lifestyle changes and new and different foods. SIBO is so pernicious because it prevents the efficient energy production needed to maintain a healthy gut. There are many diseases like Alzheimer's that originate in the gut, and my experience is that antibiotics actually relieve some of my symptoms that probiotics don't. The problem with bacterial endotoxins is something that is basically unknown outside of the Ray Peat community. And yet SIBO affects a lot more people than they realize. People here who have problems with beans (myself included) probably suffer from SIBO. No acclimation of three beans over days will make the bean problems go away. Antibiotics might do the trick.

Ray Peat was right about a lot of things. For one man to figure it all out on his own and build dietary interventions around it, damn, that's a feat in itself that shows what a great intellect this man had. Of course, he was wrong about some things, especially vitamin A. But mental health care would be very different if professionals took his ideas more seriously, for one thing, all SSRI's would be swept off the table as treatment options, and antibiotics wouldn't be bashed as they tend to be in alternative health care, but rather considered as a treatment for degenerative diseases.

Quote from Janelle525 on December 13, 2023, 2:31 pm

Quote from Inger on December 13, 2023, 10:06 am

@janelle525 you really have gone through it too.. wow. I never fell for the Ray Peat thing, but most of the other things.

I was very thin eating a raw vegan diet, and also eating carnivore doing nicotine gums and coffee... Boah.. I felt I had so much power. But it could not last because I just pushed myself, my adrenals. How did I even do that without realizing it cant be good. I think when you are younger you kind of tolerate anything. Its only after many years that the pushing does not work anymore. I remember trying methylene blue too, and all kind of supplements and shit. I want touch that anymore. I dont want pushing, I want reality. If I am tired without any stimulants that is my reality and its allowed. It means I have to rest, darn. I cant believe how this need to function high speed all the times is so strong.

It almost feels like a death, to be totally naturally what you are. But it is kind of a sweet death. So real. It is called.. reality

I agree, I don't use stimulants at all anymore. If I'm tired then there's a reason! Reality has been very healing for me. 

Quote from Janelle525 on December 13, 2023, 2:37 pm

Quote from Jiří on December 13, 2023, 10:56 am

@janelle525  I think many things from Ray can be used short term to overcome some trauma. But long term it will most likely ruin your body, because it is unbalanced and it pushes the body in one direction.. I also never liked how Ray was fast recommending taking hormones like it is a candy and was never asking why for example thyroid is low in a first place.. I mean you can simply eat too little calories and if that is the case taking thyroid is just horrible for you.. Yeah eating sugar 10 times a day will bake you more sensitive to stress hormones, because you are constantly increasing insulin and lowering cortisol with sugar. So when you run out of sugar or you have some stress situation you can't handle that stress because you are very sensitive to it.. What I also never understood about Ray is that he is so anti estrogen, but fiber(soluble) is essential to help liver detox everything from toxins to hormones.. I think soy is not ideal food. but eating a lot of dairy and eggs with little fiber will make you more estrogenic than eating legume(fiber) heavy diet that's for sure and Ray looked somewhat estrogen dominant. in his older age. I think "cowboy diet" like Dr.Smith likes to call beef and beans diet is much better for most people than milk and orange juice. That's for sure..   

Yeah I did start to wonder as the years went on, why doesn't he care why everyone is low thyroid? And turns out the vast majority of people put on thyroid hormones have a healthy thyroid! Conversion of T4 to T3 depends on the liver!

You make a very important point about any little stress will feel like a huge stress because we become so sensitive to the adrenaline we do make. That was me. I think I had the most sensitivity to adrenaline than anyone ever lol. It was hell. Meanwhile my husband doesn't feel adrenaline at all. So he is on the other end of the spectrum. I couldn't watch any movie because I'd be on the edge of my seat and my palms would be sweaty from any little battle scene. 

Quote from Janelle525 on December 13, 2023, 2:54 pm

Quote from Hermes on December 13, 2023, 12:33 pm

There's certainly room for criticizing Ray Peat's ideas, and I agree with some of the sentiments, like how every problem seemed to boil down to a troubled thyroid. And yes, somehow you'd expect someone who took such meticulous care of his health to live longer, except that he actually lived longer than the US average (just for comparison: it's 73 years), so statistically he's already an outlier, having outlived his average peers by 13 years. From that perspective, 86 is a pretty impressive age. And yet, my grandmother also lived to be 93, her older sister was 95, and they never spent a day in their lives thinking about food and how it affects their health. My grandmother, like my mother, ate whatever she liked. And having been on this health journey for more than ten years, I have to say that's a pretty darn good guiding principle, assuming you're healthy. The moment you start to struggle, the principle is also compromised. So yes, I do feel conflicted about Ray Peat, but I also want to point out two things that hardly anyone to this day has acknowledged as problematic as he does:

1. Serotonin: Still mistakenly touted as the happy hormone responsible for good moods and uplifting thoughts. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ray Peat was the man who brought this to my attention. I don't know of anyone else who is as vocal about it. And I can tell you from experience that there's a world of difference between low and high serotonin. The world is both more pretty and more nasty when serotonin is low. It's like you can actually see. If I could turn back the clock, I'd tell my teenage version to get off the Prozac. Those were my wasted years.
2. Bacterial Endotoxin: Excess bacteria is a much bigger problem than the supposedly imbalanced gut microbiome. No one really knows what an ideal gut microbiome looks like; the microbiome is in constant flux, adapting to lifestyle changes and new and different foods. SIBO is so pernicious because it prevents the efficient energy production needed to maintain a healthy gut. There are many diseases like Alzheimer's that originate in the gut, and my experience is that antibiotics actually relieve some of my symptoms that probiotics don't. The problem with bacterial endotoxins is something that is basically unknown outside of the Ray Peat community. And yet SIBO affects a lot more people than they realize. People here who have problems with beans (myself included) probably suffer from SIBO. No acclimation of three beans over days will make the bean problems go away. Antibiotics might do the trick.

Ray Peat was right about a lot of things. For one man to figure it all out on his own and build dietary interventions around it, damn, that's a feat in itself that shows what a great intellect this man had. Of course, he was wrong about some things, especially vitamin A. But mental health care would be very different if professionals took his ideas more seriously, for one thing, all SSRI's would be swept off the table as treatment options, and antibiotics wouldn't be bashed as they tend to be in alternative health care, but rather considered as a treatment for degenerative diseases.

Yes he did in fact live longer than the avg. It's hard for me to believe the avg is 73! Everyone I know has grandparents that lived way longer than that unless they died young of cancer or infection. My grandma died of emphysema around 73. But my grandpa lived to be 96 with all his faculties he had a throat tumor that took him out. And then my two other grandparents are still alive at 90. My step dad's father was 98 even though he lived on dollar store food lol. 

Yes there were some really great things Ray made more public. I completely agree about serotonin. SSRI's should only be available for someone going through the worst human suffering, it does help dull the pain a bit. But then it should be weaned off when the person is more stable as anything past 6 months is insane. I was on them for 2 yrs and that period of my life was terrible, not as terrible as the adrenaline hell of the Ray Peat diet, but I was not myself at all. I used cyproheptadine to recover from the adrenaline hell. A strong anti-serotonin anti-histamine, but that did contribute to liver problems. 

Yes endotoxin is also a big baddy that isn't talked about much. I do think SIBO is well known, but endotoxin should be just as well known as the two go together. I used to be pretty anti-fiber because of it, but I took a lot of antibiotics as a child and I think that's the reason I have a  messed up microbiome. I wish it was as simple as taking them. My IBS started as a child. My Mom would put me on amoxicillin whenever I'd get strep throat. Which was often. I just had a re-occurrence of strep this year after getting my last tooth fixed (I had a lot of decay from the Ray Peat diet), and I got through it without antibiotics!! My Mom looked at me like I might die. I wasn't afraid, I knew this was retracing of the strep in my system and my body healed. 

Quote from Leo on January 12, 2024, 9:18 am

I'm sorry if I've already asked this but I'll try again: is areas of the body resistant to tanning related to copper/melanin deficiency? I know MSH receptors are involved.

Quote from Jiří on January 12, 2024, 9:22 am

@leo maybe vitiligo?

Quote from Leo on January 12, 2024, 9:32 am

I didn't know her, I went to see what it was about. She's not that extreme but she's very close to my situation. Being in the sun has never colored some areas.