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Vitamin D Toxicity and Retinol Relationship
So I’ve talked to a couple of individuals who have dealt with hypervitaminosis D (which can cause hypercalcemia that’ll kill you if it is severe enough), who believe that part of the problem with hypervitaminosis D is that it destroys or depletes retinol in the liver. They notice that their bodies want retinol food sources, and they respond well to it.
These individuals love The Root Cause Protocol, which suggests that retinol is helpful for those dealing with hypervitaminosis D as well as iron overload.
Does anyone know anything about this connection?
I’m thinking along the lines of: Megadosing vitamin D is a bad idea, however assuming that vitamin A is a poison, then why is it causing a positive response in these individuals? Can there be a situation where fighting poison with poison works (at least temporarily to balance something or other out)?
The RCP is growing in popularity (which concerns me, because it pushes cod liver oil and liver 🤮).
This is a bit different than vitamin D, but sort of on the topic due to potassium, which vitD affects. I always wondered how spironolactone was able to help females get rid of acne, there might be a link to potassium sparing affect, that rapidly decreases vitamin A in the liver and in serum. I would hope the disappearance is excretion and not just sending it to other fat storage.
Found these links on RPF.
Tuchweber & Garg G70,434/70: In rats, the bone lesions characteristic of vitamin-A overdosage are inhibited by spironolactone, norbolethone and ethylestrenol; the hepatic and serum vitamin-A concentrations are simultaneously decreased.
Tuchweber et al. G70,477/70: In rats, pretreatment with spironolactone, norbolethone, ethylestrenol and oxandrolone inhibits the bone absorption and catabolism induced by hypervitaminosis A. On the other hand, estradiol, prednisolone and triamcinolone actually aggravate vitamin-A intoxication. Progesterone, DOC and thyroxine do not significantly alter this intoxication. In spironolactone and norbolethone pretreated animals, the serum clearance of vitamin A is accelerated; triamcinolone has an opposite effect, especially in chronic experiments. The hepatic vitamin-A concentration is significantly decreased by spironolactone or norbolethone, cf. Fig. 14."
One only gets Hypervitaminosis D through megadosing but it will go away after a few months of supplement avoidance. Vitamin K2 and magnesium are antidotes. Vitamin A can also act as an antidote because it interferes with D at cellular receptors. Taking A would be fighting fire with napalm though.
I wonder what can cause excess of vit D besides hypercalcemia? Some overactive immune system so maybe some autoimmune issues or something? But there is no real toxic effect from vit D like it can damage some organ or something right? It is comical how I feared vit D the most. Because "it is the hormone. It is not just a vitamin like vitamin A for example." So I was eating vit A like a candy and was probably vit D deficient all the time lol.. First time I measured my vit D level it was last year in the end of october 77,9 nmol/l with ref range 75-200... So after the summer when my D should be the highest for winter. But I was basically deficient even when I was taking here and there some D3.. That summer I started with low vit A diet. Basically just rice, beef, chicken, buckwheat.. So maybe when I was detoxing a lot of vit A it lowered my vit D even more.. It's a shame I can't test easily my vit A in serum. I wound need to go 350km a cross the country... Interesting thing I had also high liver enzymes in that blood test in october ALT 1,69 ref range 0,00-0,68 AST 0,83 ref range 0,00-0,67.. Another interesting thing I have like from 20yo issues with high TSH. I stopped taking synthetic T4 because it was not helping. My TSH is probably still high like 8 or something, but my free T3 which is the most important was good. 4,2 pmol/l ref range 2,6-5,7... So obviously my thyroid must be woriking with T3 in range.. But that high TSH for decade now is mystery for me... It can be due to copper issues. But I think it is impossible for me to be deficient after eating so much liver and also buckwheat etc.. I consumed in one year the amount of copper some people consume in 20 years... So it is probably some toxicity vit A + copper... I had also high estrogen from steroid use. So it makes sense my body was retaining a lot of copper and that's probably why I also crashed with "chronic fatigue"...
Quote from Arena on May 18, 2020, 4:15 am@puddleduck very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Do I interpret you correctly when I say that your underlying question is «can taking vitamin-d help us getting rid of VA faster?».
I think it does. Even D from the sun will do it. Ray Peat was talking about it..
@are I currently think that vitamin D supplements are most likely not the safest approach, and that it is better to get your vitamin D through sun exposure (supplements contain only one form of vitamin D and can lead to undetected toxicity because the usual vitamin D blood test measures a different form, however you make over a dozen types of vitamin D from sunlight and the body wont make too much). 🔆 🙂
I was moreso wondering what retinol might be doing for these vitamin D toxic people in the short term, however I was concerned about the potential for a long-term negative consequence if vitamin A really isnt a vitamin, but only a poison (Im not 100% convinced of that idea, but because of Grants experience so far I am open to the possibility and curious about evidence for and against).
But yeah, it is good idea to consider how vitamin D affects the detox! I know some people with vitamin A toxicity are extremely sensitive to sunlight and cant go out in it, while others use UVB light therapy to improve their eczema and other conditions related to vitamin A toxicity:
https://solarcsystems.ca/en/information/eczema-information/ (This site has a lot of information about that aspect!)
I believe Dr. Smith says its tough to raise vitamin D levels until the vitamin A has been lowered, but I figure it is worth a try!
Theres a really cool app @bella told me about called “D Minder,” which is free and can help you calculate how much vitamin D youre making from the sun. Now that it is warm enough where I live, Ive been using it and find it very helpful:
@puddleduck If you can't get vit D from the sun, because you are old or sick in the bed or because you live where you can't have much UVB exposure YOU MUST TAKE VIT D3 if you want healthy immune system, calcium metabolism etc.. It is simple as that. Dr.Smith was one of the reasons why I wasn't taking D3. BIG mistake... Btw really recommend this video
@jiri Thanks for the link, looks awesome! I look forward to listening to it. Yeah, I am not 100% convinced that vitamin D supplementation is always bad for every person ever.
I should also have included that my source of the vitamin D information is Jim Stephanson Jr. in his “Secosteroid Hormone D” (which is where Dr. Smith got it from as well, I believe), but they are pretty into retinol in that group. 😝
@tim-2 That makes a lot of sense. If you have the interest and the references, I think that topic would make an interesting YouTube video.
@orion Very interesting. I am not a member of Dr. Smiths inner circle (Im poor), but I think they may have been looking experimenting with something like that... I dont know the details, though!
potassium sparing affect, that rapidly decreases vitamin A in the liver and in serum. I would hope the disappearance is excretion and not just sending it to other fat storage."
This sounds vey interesting. Could be dangerous too. Did you find out more about this? We (husband and I) have been on the diet for nearly 6 months and having a very hard time. Don't know what to do to speed this up if at least possible. As soon as we exert ourselves we are sick as dogs, cannot stand the light either. It certainly is getting better no doubt, but it is agonizingly slow. Any help would be welcome.
