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Vitamin D Toxicity and Retinol Relationship
Quote from
Ourania on May 19, 2020, 7:30 am
@jaj Thank you for your good words! What do you mean by the soluble fibre thing? We do eat legumes + rice three times a day, in smallish portions, together with beef or other meat. It is true we have increased the legumes, in the beginning we had apple sauce. Now we are tempted to eat more legumes. Do you think it makes for more detox?
I am happy to hear of your progress. Really encouraging!
As to vitamin D, we had been supplementing vit D3 previously, but stopped when we started the no vit A diet 6 months ago. I don't know why, but I don't think that supplementation (maybe two years) was a success. It somehow induced us to eat more vitamin A!
Because of previous skin cancer issues I am not supposed to go out in the sun. Very sad.
@jaj Thank you for your good words! What do you mean by the soluble fibre thing? We do eat legumes + rice three times a day, in smallish portions, together with beef or other meat. It is true we have increased the legumes, in the beginning we had apple sauce. Now we are tempted to eat more legumes. Do you think it makes for more detox?
I am happy to hear of your progress. Really encouraging!
As to vitamin D, we had been supplementing vit D3 previously, but stopped when we started the no vit A diet 6 months ago. I don't know why, but I don't think that supplementation (maybe two years) was a success. It somehow induced us to eat more vitamin A!
Because of previous skin cancer issues I am not supposed to go out in the sun. Very sad.
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Quote from
Orion on May 19, 2020, 7:33 am
Quote from
Ourania on May 19, 2020, 4:16 am
@orion
potassium sparing affect, that rapidly decreases vitamin A in the liver and in serum. I would hope the disappearance is excretion and not just sending it to other fat storage."
This sounds vey interesting. Could be dangerous too. Did you find out more about this? We (husband and I) have been on the diet for nearly 6 months and having a very hard time. Don't know what to do to speed this up if at least possible. As soon as we exert ourselves we are sick as dogs, cannot stand the light either. It certainly is getting better no doubt, but it is agonizingly slow. Any help would be welcome.
Hi @ourania Probably wouldn't be something to fool around with. Spironolactone if taken should only be used by females, it's potassium sparing affect does something to progesterone levels, males taking it will be feminized. Also would probably also need to see concrete evidence that the VA is being fully excreted and not re-distributed in the body from the liver. To me though this just shows another link to acne being caused by VA activity, as it is commonly used by women as a acne treatment, and some have good results.
Just need to commit the low VA time, it is a marathon, not a sprint 🙂
Quote from
Ourania on May 19, 2020, 4:16 am
@orion
potassium sparing affect, that rapidly decreases vitamin A in the liver and in serum. I would hope the disappearance is excretion and not just sending it to other fat storage."
This sounds vey interesting. Could be dangerous too. Did you find out more about this? We (husband and I) have been on the diet for nearly 6 months and having a very hard time. Don't know what to do to speed this up if at least possible. As soon as we exert ourselves we are sick as dogs, cannot stand the light either. It certainly is getting better no doubt, but it is agonizingly slow. Any help would be welcome.
Hi @ourania Probably wouldn't be something to fool around with. Spironolactone if taken should only be used by females, it's potassium sparing affect does something to progesterone levels, males taking it will be feminized. Also would probably also need to see concrete evidence that the VA is being fully excreted and not re-distributed in the body from the liver. To me though this just shows another link to acne being caused by VA activity, as it is commonly used by women as a acne treatment, and some have good results.
Just need to commit the low VA time, it is a marathon, not a sprint 🙂
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Quote from
Jiří on May 19, 2020, 10:24 am
@jaj stopping D3 supplement because you have high hair calcium is nonsense. High calcium, low potassium etc. can be actually from low vit D=bad immune system=adrenal fatigue, copper disbalance=high calcium( it is called calcium shell..) Now even kids have adrenal/chronci fatigue and high calcium, low potassium on hair tests. If you are taking under 5000iu of D3 and you are not on Ray Peat diet = 5000mg of calcium a day there is no way you will have hypercalcemia.. Smith is so wrong on this it is not even funny. Btw some people have issues making vit D from the sun in the skin. For example if you have thyroid issues etc.. Simply not taking vit D even when you are crazy low on blood test because your hair calcium is high is completely crazy... Most likely you have issues not jsut with vit A toxicity, but also with copper toxicity. You can do blood test on serum copper and ceruloplasmin. To calculate how much free unbound and toxic copper you have in the blood.. Copper issues are really hard to fix.
@jaj stopping D3 supplement because you have high hair calcium is nonsense. High calcium, low potassium etc. can be actually from low vit D=bad immune system=adrenal fatigue, copper disbalance=high calcium( it is called calcium shell..) Now even kids have adrenal/chronci fatigue and high calcium, low potassium on hair tests. If you are taking under 5000iu of D3 and you are not on Ray Peat diet = 5000mg of calcium a day there is no way you will have hypercalcemia.. Smith is so wrong on this it is not even funny. Btw some people have issues making vit D from the sun in the skin. For example if you have thyroid issues etc.. Simply not taking vit D even when you are crazy low on blood test because your hair calcium is high is completely crazy... Most likely you have issues not jsut with vit A toxicity, but also with copper toxicity. You can do blood test on serum copper and ceruloplasmin. To calculate how much free unbound and toxic copper you have in the blood.. Copper issues are really hard to fix.
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Quote from
Jenny on May 19, 2020, 11:03 am
A
A
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Quote from
Jenny on May 19, 2020, 11:14 am
@ourania sorry to hear you can’t go out in the sun. That’s tricky. As far as the soluble fibre goes Dr Smith is finding that when people first increase soluble fibre they are getting increased detox symptoms. I certainly had a return of vA toxicity symptoms that I thought I’d said goodbye to. Increasing the amount of soluble fibre slowly is supposed to decrease this affect as the body adjusts to producing more bile more slowly. That’s my current understanding. Dr Smith does think that the soluble fibre is vital & it’s just a phase of adjustment you need to go through!
@orion totally agree it’s a marathon & not a sprint. I’m doing everything as slowly & gently as I can as I’m not into causing any more vA spikes in the blood than I need to as I feel it’s damaging.
@ourania sorry to hear you can’t go out in the sun. That’s tricky. As far as the soluble fibre goes Dr Smith is finding that when people first increase soluble fibre they are getting increased detox symptoms. I certainly had a return of vA toxicity symptoms that I thought I’d said goodbye to. Increasing the amount of soluble fibre slowly is supposed to decrease this affect as the body adjusts to producing more bile more slowly. That’s my current understanding. Dr Smith does think that the soluble fibre is vital & it’s just a phase of adjustment you need to go through!
@orion totally agree it’s a marathon & not a sprint. I’m doing everything as slowly & gently as I can as I’m not into causing any more vA spikes in the blood than I need to as I feel it’s damaging.
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Quote from
Jiří on May 19, 2020, 11:59 am
@jaj " I’ve been looking at it in a different way & seeing low vit D as a result of vA toxicity & by fixing the vA toxicity the vitamin D & other stuff will improve."
I don't understand this. If you don't live in California and places like this where you can sun tan all year YOU MUST SUPPLEMENT if you don't wanna lower your immune system, increase depression etc.. How you think your vit D will miraculously go up without UVB or taking/eating D3???? I mean theres IS A LOT OF RESEARCH on vit D. You want to have your vit D level in second half of reference range all the time. Just every 3-4 months take vit D blood test and with it calcium in the blood. So you will make sure it is not effecting your calcium level. I mean there are people taking 300 000iu A DAY. You are scared taking 4000iu a day in the winter? Are you kidding me?
@jaj " I’ve been looking at it in a different way & seeing low vit D as a result of vA toxicity & by fixing the vA toxicity the vitamin D & other stuff will improve."
I don't understand this. If you don't live in California and places like this where you can sun tan all year YOU MUST SUPPLEMENT if you don't wanna lower your immune system, increase depression etc.. How you think your vit D will miraculously go up without UVB or taking/eating D3???? I mean theres IS A LOT OF RESEARCH on vit D. You want to have your vit D level in second half of reference range all the time. Just every 3-4 months take vit D blood test and with it calcium in the blood. So you will make sure it is not effecting your calcium level. I mean there are people taking 300 000iu A DAY. You are scared taking 4000iu a day in the winter? Are you kidding me?
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Quote from
Jenny on May 19, 2020, 12:51 pm
B
B
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pano200puddleduckDeleted user
Quote from
Jiří on May 19, 2020, 11:11 pm
@jaj
So if you are black living in UK for example working 12 hours a day inside. How exactly his vit D storage in the body will go up? Tell me what magic will do it? Like you can't be serious. Yes if you live where is a lot of sun at least in the summer and you can be outside EVERY DAY without shirt you maybe will have good storage for winter. But how many people are doing it?? Basically what are you saying is that there are no people with health issues due to low vit D I am right? Are you kidding me? I am not even talking about sick people in hospitals etc.. who can't go outside shirtless sun tan. This is just crazy that I need to explain this someone who is health conscious. You simply can't be serious in this.. Amazing..
@jaj
So if you are black living in UK for example working 12 hours a day inside. How exactly his vit D storage in the body will go up? Tell me what magic will do it? Like you can't be serious. Yes if you live where is a lot of sun at least in the summer and you can be outside EVERY DAY without shirt you maybe will have good storage for winter. But how many people are doing it?? Basically what are you saying is that there are no people with health issues due to low vit D I am right? Are you kidding me? I am not even talking about sick people in hospitals etc.. who can't go outside shirtless sun tan. This is just crazy that I need to explain this someone who is health conscious. You simply can't be serious in this.. Amazing..
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Quote from
tim on May 20, 2020, 1:25 am
@jaj
Taking 1000 IU per day which is the recommended dose is easily obtainable from fish. People in the British Isles and Scandinavia typically consumed a lot of fish. Salmon was often plentiful at higher latitudes in North America and Europe. Regardless, Vitamin D is so essential that many people in Northern Europe likely evolved almost no melanin as a way to maximise Vitamin D production. Being so fair that you cannot tan at all is very disadvantageous in most areas of the world, many also find it quite unattractive, more Vitamin D is the only reason I can think of for it being selected for. If just one generation of girls are deficient then child birth becomes difficult due to malformation of the pelvic opening so lower melanin skin would likely have been strongly selected for. Mushrooms that were harvested in summer and then dried would have been a good source of Vit D as well.
I agree that we shouldn't need to supplement but in order to not need to supplement I think we need to get plenty of sun at the end of summer and we need to consume fish daily throughout winter. I have read studies that discuss what you are talking about, different populations seem to have different D requirements. Fish phobic people will have to supplement.
@jaj
Taking 1000 IU per day which is the recommended dose is easily obtainable from fish. People in the British Isles and Scandinavia typically consumed a lot of fish. Salmon was often plentiful at higher latitudes in North America and Europe. Regardless, Vitamin D is so essential that many people in Northern Europe likely evolved almost no melanin as a way to maximise Vitamin D production. Being so fair that you cannot tan at all is very disadvantageous in most areas of the world, many also find it quite unattractive, more Vitamin D is the only reason I can think of for it being selected for. If just one generation of girls are deficient then child birth becomes difficult due to malformation of the pelvic opening so lower melanin skin would likely have been strongly selected for. Mushrooms that were harvested in summer and then dried would have been a good source of Vit D as well.
I agree that we shouldn't need to supplement but in order to not need to supplement I think we need to get plenty of sun at the end of summer and we need to consume fish daily throughout winter. I have read studies that discuss what you are talking about, different populations seem to have different D requirements. Fish phobic people will have to supplement.
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Quote from
Jenny on May 20, 2020, 2:12 am
@tim-2 I like a bit of fish! Thank you for you useful comment.
@tim-2 I like a bit of fish! Thank you for you useful comment.
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