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Vitamin K deficiency
Quote from
Tommy on October 13, 2023, 1:45 pm
Hi everyone,
After 6 months of vitamin A detox I seem to be extremely deficient in Vitamin K. My Vitamin A is still above deficiency levels though. It’s strange because I eat plenty of beef, dark chicken and beans so I’m not sure what the story is.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Has anyone else has this tested? If not, perhaps this is something that should be considered by those that are already having their A levels tested.
Hi everyone,
After 6 months of vitamin A detox I seem to be extremely deficient in Vitamin K. My Vitamin A is still above deficiency levels though. It’s strange because I eat plenty of beef, dark chicken and beans so I’m not sure what the story is.
Any ideas/suggestions?
Has anyone else has this tested? If not, perhaps this is something that should be considered by those that are already having their A levels tested.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
@tommy
Did you have your Vitamin K tested? Or are you just speculating based on symptoms?
Are you eating much fat? I don't think lean meat contains much K2 to speak of, and I wouldn't want to rely on K1 from beans. Seems like the best sources come with significant loads of Vitamin A: liver and butter, eggs to a lesser extent. Without supplementing, fermented foods might be the only way to get much K2 while avoiding Vitamin A. I'm hoping I get enough from all the ruminant fat I eat, but I still supplement with it occasionally.
@tommy
Did you have your Vitamin K tested? Or are you just speculating based on symptoms?
Are you eating much fat? I don't think lean meat contains much K2 to speak of, and I wouldn't want to rely on K1 from beans. Seems like the best sources come with significant loads of Vitamin A: liver and butter, eggs to a lesser extent. Without supplementing, fermented foods might be the only way to get much K2 while avoiding Vitamin A. I'm hoping I get enough from all the ruminant fat I eat, but I still supplement with it occasionally.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tommy on October 13, 2023, 11:45 pm
@wavygravygadzooks
No speculation here, my vitamin k levels are quite literally < 0.1 nmol/L while my other fat solubles are in normal range.
I was eating very low fat for a while as I had a gallbladder issue that refused to budge but now I am able to handle fat again so I have been increasing my intake to moderate levels (roughly 30% macro wise).
Have you had yours tested?
@wavygravygadzooks
No speculation here, my vitamin k levels are quite literally < 0.1 nmol/L while my other fat solubles are in normal range.
I was eating very low fat for a while as I had a gallbladder issue that refused to budge but now I am able to handle fat again so I have been increasing my intake to moderate levels (roughly 30% macro wise).
Have you had yours tested?
puddleduck and Hermes have reacted to this post.
@tommy
Interesting. I don't recall if many other people have posted their Vitamin K levels here. Would be valuable to know if Vitamin A metabolism is depleting Vitamin K.
Aside from a Spectracell MNT (which I don't entirely trust), I have not measured mine, so I really couldn't say what my levels are. Haven't noticed any issues with bleeding or bones though.
@tommy
Interesting. I don't recall if many other people have posted their Vitamin K levels here. Would be valuable to know if Vitamin A metabolism is depleting Vitamin K.
Aside from a Spectracell MNT (which I don't entirely trust), I have not measured mine, so I really couldn't say what my levels are. Haven't noticed any issues with bleeding or bones though.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tommy on October 14, 2023, 9:41 pm
@wavygravygadzooks
The thing is, I don’t have any typical symptoms either. No bone problems or any issues with bleeding as well. The only reason why I know about the deficiency is because is popped up on the blood test.
I would be very interested to see others around here get this test done to see if there could be a pattern…
@wavygravygadzooks
The thing is, I don’t have any typical symptoms either. No bone problems or any issues with bleeding as well. The only reason why I know about the deficiency is because is popped up on the blood test.
I would be very interested to see others around here get this test done to see if there could be a pattern…
puddleduck and Hermes have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Hermes on October 15, 2023, 8:04 am
In 2019, vitamin K was also super low when I tested it: 0.4 μg/l (reference range: 0.1-2.2 μg/l). No problems with bones or bleeding. I've been supplementing with vitamin K for a while, but I'm not taking it now.
There was a user named dino who suggested in 2019 that vitamin K might protect against vitamin A toxicity.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/vitamin-k2/
In 2019, vitamin K was also super low when I tested it: 0.4 μg/l (reference range: 0.1-2.2 μg/l). No problems with bones or bleeding. I've been supplementing with vitamin K for a while, but I'm not taking it now.
There was a user named dino who suggested in 2019 that vitamin K might protect against vitamin A toxicity.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/vitamin-k2/
puddleduck and Tommy have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tommy on October 15, 2023, 10:53 am
@christian
Brilliant. I definitely think this could be an important piece to the puzzle.
Interestingly enough, Grant would get a tonne of vitamin K2 in his diet due to the sheer amount of ground beef and bison he consumes everyday.
These are pretty much the two richest sources of vitamin K2 mk-4 out of all the non VA foods.
@christian
Brilliant. I definitely think this could be an important piece to the puzzle.
Interestingly enough, Grant would get a tonne of vitamin K2 in his diet due to the sheer amount of ground beef and bison he consumes everyday.
These are pretty much the two richest sources of vitamin K2 mk-4 out of all the non VA foods.
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Quote from
tim on October 16, 2023, 2:39 pm
K2 supplement doses tend to be too high in my opinion. K2 and K1 are pro coagulation, you don't want too much of them. Supplemental amounts may also antagonize the action of tocochromanols which is undesirable.
A diet that restricts food groups or macronutrients will often cause a range of deficiencies over time. It's easy to get K1 without getting too much vA, cabbage and avocado are two examples. Meat and lard contain excellent high K2:A ratios.
K2 supplement doses tend to be too high in my opinion. K2 and K1 are pro coagulation, you don't want too much of them. Supplemental amounts may also antagonize the action of tocochromanols which is undesirable.
A diet that restricts food groups or macronutrients will often cause a range of deficiencies over time. It's easy to get K1 without getting too much vA, cabbage and avocado are two examples. Meat and lard contain excellent high K2:A ratios.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Tommy on October 16, 2023, 6:27 pm
@tim-2
Natto is listed to have 1000mcg of K2 per serving while a K2 supplement at my local chemist has 180mcg.
Are you sure supplemental doses are too high? Would Natto be considered a food that is too rich in your opinion (similar to liver)?
@tim-2
Natto is listed to have 1000mcg of K2 per serving while a K2 supplement at my local chemist has 180mcg.
Are you sure supplemental doses are too high? Would Natto be considered a food that is too rich in your opinion (similar to liver)?
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on October 16, 2023, 7:52 pm
@tommy
There is a lot of misunderstanding around all fat soluble vitamins.
Natto is an anomaly in terms of food sources of K2 and contains only long chain menaquinones. Supplements contain either MK-7 from Natto or synthetic MK-4.
MK-4 not MK-7 is the active form in mammals. MK-4 is present in small amounts in meat, lard, eggs and milk fat. We get MK-4 directly from the diet as well as from dietary vitamin K1.
180mcg of MK-4 is a large dose. 180mcg of MK-7 is too but it's not the active form and has different physiological effects.
@tommy
There is a lot of misunderstanding around all fat soluble vitamins.
Natto is an anomaly in terms of food sources of K2 and contains only long chain menaquinones. Supplements contain either MK-7 from Natto or synthetic MK-4.
MK-4 not MK-7 is the active form in mammals. MK-4 is present in small amounts in meat, lard, eggs and milk fat. We get MK-4 directly from the diet as well as from dietary vitamin K1.
180mcg of MK-4 is a large dose. 180mcg of MK-7 is too but it's not the active form and has different physiological effects.
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