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Vitamin K deficiency
Quote from
tim on October 17, 2023, 1:45 am
Thorne Vitamin D/K2 Liquid 30ml contains 100mcg synthetic MK-4 per drop. You can put one drop on a plate and use a small piece of bread to carefully absorb a fraction of a drop to consume a dose lower than 100mcg.
Thorne Vitamin D/K2 Liquid 30ml contains 100mcg synthetic MK-4 per drop. You can put one drop on a plate and use a small piece of bread to carefully absorb a fraction of a drop to consume a dose lower than 100mcg.
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Quote from
Jiří on October 17, 2023, 7:05 am
@tim-2 180mcg of MK-4 is a large dose? Thorne had or maybe still has K2 drops where each drop is 1000mcg(1mg).. Btw you can find studies(was reading them on Ray Peat forum) that shows really good results with MK7 and you need only 150-200mcg a day. For MK4 people are using doses up to 45000mcg(45mg) like in Japan where they use it for osteporosis.. I trust more mk7. So I take it in drops form 200mcg a day..
@tim-2 180mcg of MK-4 is a large dose? Thorne had or maybe still has K2 drops where each drop is 1000mcg(1mg).. Btw you can find studies(was reading them on Ray Peat forum) that shows really good results with MK7 and you need only 150-200mcg a day. For MK4 people are using doses up to 45000mcg(45mg) like in Japan where they use it for osteporosis.. I trust more mk7. So I take it in drops form 200mcg a day..
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Quote from
tim on October 17, 2023, 7:37 pm
@jiri
I'm cautious because from what I've read K2 may have pro coagulation effects like K1 and in general I prefer to use nutrient amounts that aren't too much higher than what can be obtained from food.
High amounts may negatively affect tocopherol and tocotrienol metabolism.
Use of mg doses is a drug like approach trying to force a physiological effect.
MK-7 may do some of what MK-4 does but it doesn't completely replace MK-4.
If taking K2 while depleting vA I think it's a good idea to take some low dose palm oil sourced full spectrum vitamin E.
@jiri
I'm cautious because from what I've read K2 may have pro coagulation effects like K1 and in general I prefer to use nutrient amounts that aren't too much higher than what can be obtained from food.
High amounts may negatively affect tocopherol and tocotrienol metabolism.
Use of mg doses is a drug like approach trying to force a physiological effect.
MK-7 may do some of what MK-4 does but it doesn't completely replace MK-4.
If taking K2 while depleting vA I think it's a good idea to take some low dose palm oil sourced full spectrum vitamin E.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on October 17, 2023, 9:51 pm
@tim-2 well yes if you were eating zero K2 your whole life and you want to fix some isues with teeth, bones or decalcification of soft tissues etc. Oviously you need higher doses. If you are perfectly healthy and you take it because you don't have much in your diet I agree. Btw that's why I like mk7 more. Because there are studies that doses around 150-200mcg are effective. Which can be replicated by eating natto. With mk4 they are all talking about huge doses in miligrams and you can't eat 15mg or more from whole eggs, dairy etc... But again there is a reason why they give people in Japan doses in 30mg+ for bone issues..
@tim-2 well yes if you were eating zero K2 your whole life and you want to fix some isues with teeth, bones or decalcification of soft tissues etc. Oviously you need higher doses. If you are perfectly healthy and you take it because you don't have much in your diet I agree. Btw that's why I like mk7 more. Because there are studies that doses around 150-200mcg are effective. Which can be replicated by eating natto. With mk4 they are all talking about huge doses in miligrams and you can't eat 15mg or more from whole eggs, dairy etc... But again there is a reason why they give people in Japan doses in 30mg+ for bone issues..
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Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 2:10 am
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
El on October 29, 2023, 2:36 am
Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 2:10 am
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
What foods were you eating and what supplements were you taking?
Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 2:10 am
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
What foods were you eating and what supplements were you taking?
Quote from
El on October 29, 2023, 2:59 am
Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 2:10 am
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8343734/
Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 2:10 am
Just providing an update on my vitamin k situation…
It seems that I am now getting bleeding gums. I suspect that this may be a manifestation of my extreme vitamin k deficiency. Vitamin C seems to help greatly with this but still isn’t able to completely alleviate the issue.
This got me thinking…
Perhaps the reason why carnivores don’t seem to run into issues with vitamin C deficiency, (other than the absence of sugar in their diet) is because their diet is rich in highly bioavailable and absorbable vitamin K2.
Interestingly enough, Grant has a diet that has virtually no vitamin C but is rich in vitamin k (K2 from fatty beef or bison).
This would imply some sort of interaction/relationship between vitamin K and C, but once again this is a half baked post that isn’t really backed by any research from my end.
Would love to know anyones thoughts or ideas.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8343734/
Quote from
El on October 29, 2023, 3:00 am
The administration of vitamin K in children creates cancer, specifically leukemia.
The administration of vitamin K in children creates cancer, specifically leukemia.
Quote from
Tommy on October 29, 2023, 3:01 am
I’ve been eating pretty much anything that is low in vitamin A.
Potatoes, Rice, beans, beef and chicken are my staples.
But I also will eat bread and other cooked grains, lean fish, low A fruits, olive oil, nuts, low A vegetables as part of recipes that I cook.
I have recently introduced natto into my diet, hoping that it can help improve my vitamin k status.
I’ve been eating pretty much anything that is low in vitamin A.
Potatoes, Rice, beans, beef and chicken are my staples.
But I also will eat bread and other cooked grains, lean fish, low A fruits, olive oil, nuts, low A vegetables as part of recipes that I cook.
I have recently introduced natto into my diet, hoping that it can help improve my vitamin k status.
puddleduck and El have reacted to this post.
Quote from
El on October 29, 2023, 3:04 am
Like all fat-soluble vitamins, they accumulate in the liver.
In general, newborns have a low vitamin K status for the following reasons: (transport of vitamin K across the placental barrier is limited; storage of vitamin K in the liver is quite low; the Vitamin K may not yet be fully functional in newborns, especially premature infants; and the vitamin K content of breast milk is low.
Like all fat-soluble vitamins, they accumulate in the liver.
In general, newborns have a low vitamin K status for the following reasons: (transport of vitamin K across the placental barrier is limited; storage of vitamin K in the liver is quite low; the Vitamin K may not yet be fully functional in newborns, especially premature infants; and the vitamin K content of breast milk is low.
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