Quote from tim on October 23, 2020, 7:43 am

@jiri

Yeah it's low vA but it does have quite a bit of lutein in it. I still eat some corn chips.

@lil-chick

I have organic whole wheat Mini Bites for breakfast with almond milk. Extremely tasty, much more so than oat porridge.

Quote from lil chick on October 23, 2020, 8:12 am

White corn products are available here especially in the bigger stores.   I buy white corn chips and white corn meal and frozen white corn niblets.  I make corn muffins out of the corn meal, and shepherds pie from the niblets.   I think white corn has a more delicate flavor and texture.  We have a form of sweetcorn here called "silver queen" it comes in last of the year, and everyone loves it, it is delicate. 

Quote from Jiří on October 23, 2020, 8:13 am

@tim-2 I like corn flakes and whey protein in water instead of milk.. I will keep avoiding foods high or moderate in retinol/beta carotene for life. But after 14 months on rice and meat. I think I can eat things like corn and keep eliminating excess vit A from my body(if there is any..)

Quote from lil chick on October 23, 2020, 8:17 am

Shepherds pie in America is typically ground beef, corn and potatoes, layered, with a gravy sauce. 

I like it that way but I typically use lamb instead (isn't this about shepherds, after all?)

Its a fave here and I don't see why it wouldn't be a lowered-VA standard meal.

Quote from Ourania on October 23, 2020, 9:04 am

When I was thiamine deficient, corn used to provoke symptoms. There is thiamin's in corn I think, it has been well studied in animal feed.

Quote from tim on October 24, 2020, 7:23 pm

@lil-chick

I think white corn still has a similar amount of lutein? The only other concern about corn is that it is pellegra inducing but perhaps it has no effect as long as one consumes it in moderation. Corn is a delicious grain in my book.

@jiri

I have little desire to integrate high vA foods back into my diet. Yeah i don't think small amounts of corn will interfere much with vA detox, I keep my intake very limited though since I still have high serum retinol and I want it lower asap.

Quote from salt on October 25, 2020, 12:42 am

Quote from tim on October 24, 2020, 7:23 pm

@lil-chick

I think white corn still has a similar amount of lutein? The only other concern about corn is that it is pellegra inducing but perhaps it has no effect as long as one consumes it in moderation. Corn is a delicious grain in my book.

@jiri

I have little desire to integrate high vA foods back into my diet. Yeah i don't think small amounts of corn will interfere much with vA detox, I keep my intake very limited though since I still have high serum retinol and I want it lower asap.

Lutein is yellow/orange, I don't think white corn has significant amoutns of it, it would be visible. Pellegra probably can't happen on this diet with all the meat. It's not that corn directly causes pellegra, it's that if you only eat corn and little else you will get pellegra (vit b3 deficiency).

Quote from Jiří on October 25, 2020, 1:41 am

@tim-2 "The only other concern about corn is that it is pellegra inducing"

how so? Pellegra = vit B3 deficiency right? What corn has to do with that? Because it is low in B3? Well it is like saying rice is scurvy inducing, because it has no vit C? Doesn't make sense right... They started talk about pellegra and corn together, because some population of people were eating only corn. That will create all kinds of deficiencies, but if I eat in one meal 100g of corn pasta with meat instead of rice. There is almost no difference in micronutrient intake for that day.. Also we all eat a lot of meat here. B3 deficiency is the last thing I would worry about heh.

Quote from tim on October 25, 2020, 2:26 am

I read years ago that some researchers believe that it's not just the lack of bioavailable niacin that makes corn pellegragenic. I can't remember where I read it, I just did a quick search, this is all I could find:

http://www.fao.org/3/t0395e/T0395E07.htm

Niacin. The alkaline treatment of maize has been reported to destroy its pellagragenic factor. Evidence from a large number of researchers has suggested that pellagra results from an imbalance of the essential amino acids, increasing the niacin requirement of the animal. This point has been extensively debated between those who claim that niacin in maize is bound and not available to the animal and those who favour the theory of improved amino acid balance induced by the alkaline-cooking process, as lime treatment results in release of the bound niacin. Pearson et al. (1957) have shown that boiling maize in water has the same effect (that is, it increases niacin availability). Bressani, Gómez-Brenes and Scrimshaw (1961) found that in vitro enzymatic digestion liberated all the niacin from raw maize as from tortillas and reached the conclusion that differences in amino acid balance rather than in bound niacin were responsible for the differences between raw and lime-processed maize in biological activity and pellagragenic action. Lime treatment of maize improves amino acid balance, as demonstrated by Cravioto et al. (1952) and Bressani and Scrimshaw (1958). Other workers have shown that experimental animals grow better when fed lime-treated rather than raw maize. Using cats which cannot convert tryptophan into niacin - Braham, Villareal and Bressani (1962) showed that niacin from raw and lime-treated maize was utilized to an equal extent, suggesting its availability is not affected by processing.

From the above it sounds like the current thinking about niacin non-bioavailability in corn causing pellegra could be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some anti-nutrient present in corn that antagonizes niacin absorption or utilization... If it is due to an anti-nutrient then it's best not to eat too much corn that hasn't been nixtamalized.