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What do you think of the iheal.me blog?
I think Anika simply ate too restrictively and was missing many things like b-vitamins. B1 deficiency will give you insomnia and sympathetic nervous system dominance. So she started eating more whole foods and got more b-vitamins and minerals and now feels better. But its only a matter of time before she fills up again with retinoids and her symptoms come right back....lets wait and see the results in a years time.
One of the statements that Anika makes in her post is:
Vitamin A is in everything, how could nature make this mistake?
Except, I don't see it as a mistake of nature at all. Vitamin A in plants is ideal because itās both a predator toxin and a very effective light absorbing molecule at the same time. Itās also a well-known reproductive toxin to animals. So, by using vitamin A plants can slowly keep their predators in check. Nature does not always just do things that only benefitĀ humans. Plants were not put on the planet for us humans. Plants were here about 500 million years before we showed up.
But, thereās another aspect to the photo sensitivity of vitamin A that I did not fully appreciate before. I assumed that the light absorbing aspect of the molecule just benefited the plant by converting light energy into food. But. itās also a delayed toxin that moves out into the skin of predators and when activated by sunlight it subsequently damages the DNA. The result in humans is lupus, eczema, etc.
Hereās a good presentation on just how clever plants are in using toxins to protect themselves.
https://youtu.be/fnjX3cZ4q84?t=1277
Grant
This "Anika person" will start answering š
Thank you @lil-chick for your warm welcome. I appreciate this a lot, after so much roughness we face over the past few months. It is not easy to stand here with a complete different opinion.
I was hoping for good conversations even though we might not all have the same opinion. There canāt be growth and understanding without controversial conversation. These conversations will make us understand the whole topic better, and as you mention, this is what we need.
it seems your major point is "vitamin A detoxes are unnecessary", am I right? And that vitamin A probably has uses in the body (I agree with that BTW). And that many good things become toxic in large amounts (also agree).
It is true that some people do become actually, diagnosibly vitamin-A toxic (there are studies posted here on the science thread). Are you saying there is no need for them to go through a process of taking in less, so that they will use up their overload?
Thank you @lil-chick for your warm welcome. I appreciate this a lot, after so many roughness we face over the past few month. It is not easy to stand there with a complete different opinion.
I was hoping for good conversations even though we might not all have the same opinion. There canāt be growth and understanding without controversial conversation. These conversations will make us understand the whole topic better, and as you mention, this is what we need.
At this point I can not say if the detox is necessary, if you have been eating too much Vitamin A or supplemented Vitamin A in high doses.
I am more going for that there is no need. Discontinuing the supplement or topical A and then just eating a normal, balanced diet from organic fruits, vegetables and meat will probably be fine. Like in the study you posted about the boy with hypercalcemia. I donāt think they advised a low-VA diet. If something is advised, they had mentioned it in the text (like with the water intake).
Yes, there are many cases of Vitamin A toxicity, and they had been induced by both, supplementation and food.
In one case study they resolved the problem with simply advising the person to eat a normal amount of Vitamin A, and he could reverse his Hypervitaminosis A.
I know I have another paper that says, that retinoids are of need to ādetoxā/ mobilize retinoids from the liver.
I will try to find it and share it.
RBP will build up in the liver, if you donāt eat Vitamin A. If will try to find that paper too. I donāt have the time for it this morning. If that is a good think or not, I donāt know. But the build up of RBP in the liver when no Vitamin A is coming into the system, shows us, that it canāt be an Antibody. If that theory would be correct, there would be no production of the protein when no Vitamin A is coming in.
So, as you can read I am absolutely the opinion that Vitamin A can be a problem. Both acute and chronic Vitamin A toxicity. I never said or wrote anything else.
In humans, the available data clearly suggest that the occurrence of toxic symptoms depends both on the vitamin A dose taken on a regular basis, and on the duration of this intake. But, no association has been found in the majority of case-control studies between daily doses of vitamin A of 3000 Ī¼g RE or less.
The lowest continuous daily consumption in patients with Hepatotoxicity was 7500 Ī¼g RE/day taken over 6 years.
We should never forget, that we need to watch the persons lifestyle and nutritional status in a whole to make any conclusions.
By what I learned until now, I think there is no need to go that restrictive to come out of Vitamin A toxicity.
I think it is not helpful for the body to go on the restrictive diet. You will eventually create more problems due to severe nutritional deficiencies.
I think I was just doing very good for the first half of the year on the low-VA diet because before I got supplemented with Vitamin A. After my toxicity symptoms had cleared I probably had enough Vitamin A in good amounts to feel good. As simple as that.
I think the "dangerous" part of this whole approach is, that people "just" use their Vitamin A blood levels and symptoms to say they are Vitamin A toxic. In specific cases Vitamin A blood levels can be high, even though your liver levels are low. That is for example the case with kidney problems or dialysis patients. It is more tricky than we think to know if we are in a real toxicity state. I am planing to write about this topic. That is why I showed my hair mineral tests in my last blog. You can read in your minerals if they are bio available or not. Vitamin A is needed to make them bio available and this can be ONE indicator to see if you are running low on Vitamin A.
But there are some more indicators than blood alone to check if you have a real toxicity going on in your liver. The dangerous part is, when people don't know for sure where they are at, they could be dealing with low Vitamin A-levels already and create more problems than before. Leaving out so many food groups can be anything that makes them feel better at first. But the symptoms I am reading about people claim to be detox symptoms most of the time more sound like several deficiency symptoms. That's why we want to show the other side with our blogs. We are concerned people will feel worse in the end.
Just a last word on hair test. I guess you picked the case study with the hypercalcemia because of my hair calcium levels. These just show, that my calcium can not be used. There is enough (simply said) but it can't get into the cells. That doesn't mean I am hypercalcemic. My hair calcium went so bad again during my Vitamin A detox.
About the essay, well I try:
I think it's just a metabolic stimulant that needs to be balanced with other co factors. If you're sedentary you won't have sufficient ATP to uptake magnesium. This eventually leaves you vitamin K and D deficient and with a fatty liver (because of defunctional sulfation pathways and unhappy lymph system, perhaps). Vitamin A, K and D work together in a close balance so this state is obviously going to make too much Retinol a negative.
Retinol from supplements or liver overrides the body's rate limiting mechanisms and can cause problems.
On this note, I'm now of the opinion that it's impossible to restore metabolic health without exercise. The insulin/prolactin relationship is something I need to understand better but it seems to be a calcium metabolism and dopaminergic road block.
It's imperative to resolving insulin issues and in turn fatty liver and upping vitamin A tolerance.
Looking at health and vitamins in a microcosm is so unbelievably damaging as it creates irrational fears and makes people ignore their intuition. It's easy to be scared in a state of metabolic insufficiency.
Vitamin A is just a molecule wearing many hats.
However, swallowing a capsule of pure vitamin A or injecting 3-month olds with 100000 IU of retinol may bypass our evolutionally acquired safeguards.
I think that should be it.
With that said I want to share another article.
Vitamin A: The key to A tolerant immune system?
Wishing you all a great Sunday š
Anika
Ā
I will answer your questions, but want to do it detailed. I will come back to you š soon.
@prtcp please explain why you think it is poor research and arguments. Do you have better ones? Please share them with us.
I am just sharing what happened to us and try to explain this (in my opinion with not the worst explanations and A LOT of effort).
I am giving a lot of food for thought. Many people messaging us with the same problems and after they stopped the diet, they experience the same well-being as we do.
You might want to read our blogs again. Everything you are doubting /stating is in there. We ate the detox diet of Dr. Garret Smith and there were a lot of foods in it. We are from Germany and always eating the highest standard of organic foods. This is called "Demeter" from bio dynamic farming. The most nutrient dense foods you can get, because they take care of their soils.
It is REALLY important that you bring our lifestyle in context. We did everything to lower Vitamin A (or are said to lower Vitamin A).
We are VERY active in our jobs and private life. We went to the sauna regularly, we had been out in the sun almost every day in the summer time and getting A LOT of sun. We were sweating in the sun and from our activities. We ate very low Vitamin A diet, but still tried to get nutrients from whole foods. We didn't cheat one single time!
In the beginning we had been patients of Dr. Smith and also taking supplements. We left them out later, as they produced to many imbalances. We are supplement free for almost a year now.
In the end, because I was not feeling well, I left out more foods, believing I still get to much Vitamin A. I left out my last source which contained Vitamin A. That was butter. I did that, and I felt even worse. NO, it was not detox. Detox comes and goes. I was miserable for half a year.
This is getting very controversial. Grant and Dr. Smith just recently said, that they need less food. Less food stands for fewer nutrients. Where is the line here? Dr. Smith stated that we don't need B-Vitamins when we stop eating Vitamin A (because his opinion is that Vitamin A uses up all the other Vitamins).
Please don't understand me wrong. YES, I needed B-Vitamins. Like many others reporting now too. But even I still ate a whole food organic diet on the detox, I lacked many other minerals and probably Vitamins. This is what I write about on my blog.
I don't make a secret out of anything. I give you all the insides you need to know.
Quote from Anika on December 1, 2019, 2:07 amThis is getting very controversial. Grant and Dr. Smith just recently said, that they need less food. Less food stands for fewer nutrients. Where is the line here? Dr. Smith stated that we don't need B-Vitamins when we stop eating Vitamin A (because his opinion is that Vitamin A uses up all the other Vitamins).
Please don't understand me wrong. YES, I needed B-Vitamins. Like many others reporting now too. But even I still ate a whole food organic diet on the detox, I lacked many other minerals and probably Vitamins. This is what I write about on my blog.
Do you have a source for the statement in bold above, Anika? That is a serious accusation to make, as it would harm Dr. Smithās professional reputation.
I am not a client of Dr. Smith, and am not a member of his Inner Circle, either. However, I did purchase his Vitamin A Detox guide a little over a month ago now, and in the current program Dr. Smith clearly emphasizes the importance of B vitamins in keeping us healthy.
This is getting very controversial. Grant and Dr. Smith just recently said, that they need less food. Less food stands for fewer nutrients. Where is the line here?
Yeah, I did see that Dr. Smith posted about this in his Mighty Network. It didnāt alarm me, though, because Dr. Smith wasnāt (and isnāt) advocating caloric restriction to his clients or followers.Ā
Theyāre going into uncharted waters with this experiment. Sharing the observations they make along the way is helpful to everyone, regardless of the differences of opinion that arise about it all.
I can certainly understand why you find that particular observation concerning. A lowered appetite can be caused by as many negative reasons as positive ones. Without enough evidence one way or the other, all we can do is guess.
For now, Iām going to guess that Grant and Dr. Smith have super awesome digestion now, so they can absorb and utilize nutrients more effectively! š (At least I hope thatās the case, because obviously I want them to continue to have good health.)
Anyway, I want joinĀ @lil-chickĀ in welcoming you here, @anikaĀ š Iām susceptible to falling for dogmatic ideas, so I appreciate healthy skepticism, differences of opinion, and arguments. š
Although my daily food intake is significantly lower (by ~40%) than compared to when I first started this diet, I donāt see it as an adverse reaction. Rather, I think itās probably just due to my body now being more efficient in extracting and utilizing the calories and nutrients that I do take in.
Iām not losing weight, and Iām not gaining weight, and I almost never feel hungry, etc. I still exercise every day, and my strength and endurance continues to improve. Therefore, I think that my current dietary intake is matching my bodyās real needs.
I too want to say that @anika is very welcome here. We still have a long way to go in sorting this all out. All opinions and views are appreciated.
Grant
With regard to B Vitamins:
Anyone eating a low VA diet that is avoiding wheat products fortified with folic acid will likely become folate deficient unless they regularly consume legumes.
B Vitamins are mostly found in meats, potatoes, legumes, nuts and whole grains so one's B Vitamin intake is independent of ones VA intake.
Gut dysbiosis can potentially affect one's B Vitamin status. High carbohydrate intake increases one's B1 needs.