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What's most important? Marshall Protocol meets Vitamin A detox
Quote from Armin on July 8, 2021, 8:52 amQuote from rockarolla on July 8, 2021, 6:07 amWhat I've failed to understand is why vitamin D was made an absolute and only villain. Why not drop A C E "vitamins" instead(carnivore diet/carnivore+rice diet) since they downregulate immunity if not exactly through the same pathways(all vitamins overlap in antagonizing the same subset of immune system receptors) as D but with the identical net result: less TNF, interferon gamma, MCP-1, CSFs(colony-stimulating factors) etc...
Grant got recovered from CFS on vitamin A-less diet. Anyone in remission from CFS with MP?
Another thing: vit D deficiency is commonly associated with weight gain, while vit A normalization with weight loss and weight gain is #1 side effect of any immunosuppressive drug(i.e. less consumption of glucose/glutamine/fatty acids by immune cells under the same nutrition level).
Yes, it is quite interesting.
I'm sure some on the MP have reduced their CFS symptoms and I did as well to a degree. But it never fully went away. It would wax and wane for years and continue to do so. I look back to my pre-drinking days and how much mental focus and energy I had. Haven't drank in 10 years and there are days I feel like a competent human and others where I should be a bear hibernating, barely able to focus of daily tasks.
4 months ago I was 185 lbs (36 y/o Male) and now I am down to 150. I am sure that the increase lipolysis has contributed to increase in symptoms by way of immune response as well as retinol exposure from fat cells. I recently had to cut my olmesartan dose to half because I was going insane. Not sure if I currently need VDR activation. I'm going to primarily use it as a way to protect my organs from collateral damage.
On the MP, coffee is used as a way to modulate the innate immune system if symptoms get too strong. Suppressed immune function via chlorogenic acid is one of the theories on how microbes get the upper hand. Anyways, an interesting thing has started happening with coffee for the past year or so. I would drink coffee, feel great, and get along with my day. And then things would turn. When ever I started drinking coffee, it felt like I was going insane. Like I was drugged. I would switch to tea for a while and come back to coffee, only for 7 days of coffee drinking to then again cause the same state of insanity. I've been trying to figure it out. I thought maybe mycotoxins from coffee or interference with glucose regulation. Maybe a week of coffee drinking eventually ended with a release of too much retinoic acid into the system. This process would repeat like clockwork.
I'm pretty sure you liked the pro-cortisol effect of coffee. Autoimmune diseases are treated with cortisol. But resistance develops over time to the stimulation of cortisol by caffeine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2257922/
Quote from Daniil on July 8, 2021, 12:49 pmQuote from rockarolla on July 8, 2021, 6:07 amWhat I've failed to understand is why vitamin D was made an absolute and only villain. Why not drop A C E "vitamins" instead(carnivore diet/carnivore+rice diet) since they downregulate immunity if not exactly through the same pathways(all vitamins overlap in antagonizing the same subset of immune system receptors) as D but with the identical net result: less TNF, interferon gamma, MCP-1, CSFs(colony-stimulating factors) etc...
Grant got recovered from CFS on vitamin A-less diet. Anyone in remission from CFS with MP?
Another thing: vit D deficiency is commonly associated with weight gain, while vit A normalization with weight loss and weight gain is #1 side effect of any immunosuppressive drug(i.e. less consumption of glucose/glutamine/fatty acids by immune cells under the same nutrition level).
hmm, can you show research on vitamin E suppressing the immune system? You know, I'm interested in this topic.
I was thinking about the role of oxidants in the immune system, and tocotrienols are tens of times more powerful antioxidants than tocopherols...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16011463/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-73741-6
I was thinking about the role of oxidants in the immune system
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/dark-side-of-antioxidants-like-vitamin-c-etc/
😉
Dropping coffee has made me achey! Something is triggered. In order not to take your thread down too much of a rat hole, I will put my coffee withdrawal thoughts on my log.
Quote from lil chick on July 9, 2021, 4:47 amDropping coffee has made me achey! Something is triggered. In order not to take your thread down too much of a rat hole, I will put my coffee withdrawal thoughts on my log.
No problem. Coffee has also been one of those double edged swords for me at times. It sometimes makes things easier but sometimes it turns on me and makes existence a living hell. Could be the retinoic acid fluctuations, or the aldehydes or something else. 7 days will go well and then it will stab me in the back. I then switch to tea and that helps but it gets boring and doesn't suppress the symptoms as much as coffee when it is working for me, so I go back, only to be stabbed again. I'm insane but with good intentions.
Anyone use a mini-rebounder (trampoline) for detox?
I once read about a woman who had terminal cancer and used a rebounder as part of her overall plan to get well. Which she did!
Coffee stimulating bile release? (if you have cholestasis, you don't really want to be releasing bile unless you are mopping it up in the GI with fiber, or at least pooping it out in a timely manner.)
Garrett Smith said "Long-term, coffee raises estrogen, which worsens cholestasis. Short-term studies show the opposite of this, very much like the Duration Paradox of Vit A. Coffee is extremely high in polyphenols (slows ALDH, depletes B1) and caffeine (slows ALDH, uses up molybdenum)."
These days I'm focusing on how things affect my liver and the cholestasis problem. I am not adding dietary fat, except sometimes some oil spray on the pan, or a little avocado oil on a grain salad--if I eat more fat my cholestasis problem gets noticeable. I have Hashimoto's and Graves Disease--both are considered autoimmune and measured each by their own antibodies. I am also now trying to but out fructose/sucrose because of effect on liver.
This sun avoidance and MP is interesting. When I showed it to my friend she replied, "Some say virus others bacteria. I will take a gander at the videos. I told you about the germ theory being debunked, although I still have questions. But it all seems to point to toxicity and that bacteria come to clean up the exosomes that are interpreted as viruses but really are pushed out of the cell in response to toxins. So maybe you're back to [vitamin A] again!"
I'm not savvy enough to see the forest for the trees. I follow Dr. Garrett Smith's advice and so far it's all making sense as I make changes--it all lines up with my experience. That said, if you are looking at how viruses or bacteria mess up your body, you can look to VA for making you vulnerable.
Even before I realized I was unwell, I knew that I couldn't drink coffee. Several hours later and I am a mess.
Alcohol - I stopped this a long time ago and if I have a drink now I have a bad night. The original reason I stopped was because of "histamine intolerance" which now Dr. Smith says is caused by cholestasis and I have no reason to doubt that. I may never drink alcohol again, and only *if* I feel I have totally recovered my liver, because when we drink alcohol, it must be detoxed before everything else, so all the other shit has to wait til later to get detoxed. I cannot afford to do any kind of damage to my liver, and I look forward to the days when I have complete wellbeing, which I think will get close if I can heal the liver. I have been unwell for 20 years, and everything else that promised to heal me has done nothing but make me worse--the only thing that came close was a probiotic and now Dr. Smith is showing how gut flora have a big effect on making dirty bile acids that end up re-circulating in the body. So, this is as close as I ever came to being on this track. Now, I am doing the things that Dr. Smith figures out.
Not sure I have much to add to the scientific discovery here, but thanks for bringing this up. The MP website was very interesting. I may never get as far as trying it. I am interested to know how much it costs you for that drug Olmesartan.
If extremely low vit D levels actually stimulate the immunity people should lose weight on them, not gain, since immune system calories demands are very high...
Also, instead of dropping D why not to fix the diet first, by getting rid of the things outlined below.. maybe vit D in turn will become pro inflammatory instead of anti inflammatory then. 😉
https://www.oatext.com/Circulating-immune-cell-activation-and-diet-A-review-on-human-trials.php
This review demonstrates that a Mediterranean-style diet rich in whole grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, walnuts, and olive oil might be effective in reducing both the prevalence of the most frequent chronic diseases such as T2DM, CVD, obesity or MetS compared to Western dietary patterns mainly characterized by a high intake of SFA. Diet, weight loss by hypocaloric diets with different macronutrient distribution or by surgical intervention, regular practice of physical activity and healthy lifestyle seem to be associated with a reduction of the low-grade inflammatory state linked to all these diseases. Benefits in antiinfllammatory status are associated with a higher consumption of dietary fibre, whole grain, ω-3 fatty acids and dairy products, among others. One of the mechanisms responsible for these protective effects is the reduction of cell adhesion molecules (VCAM-1, ICAM-1, E-and P-Selectin), chemokines, interleukins and other inflammatory biomarkers after the adoption of a healthy dietary pattern.
Mini update -
It has been 5 months total since my immune activation in March. Since then, I have been on a 90% carnivore (beef) diet. I went from 185lbs down to 151lbs. This is the first time that I have eaten like this during a flare.
The last 2 times I had a flare, I went the starvation route. I ate salads and cruciferous vegetables. I dropped weight pretty fast as well, with the intention of getting a "fasting" reaction from low protein and low total calories.
But it had me thinking.
In light of vitamin A toxicity, me going the starvation route with low protein and rapid weight loss, a ton of crap must have been flooded in my system from the fat releasing stored compounds. Couple that with the low protein intake, I wasn't doing my body any favors.
With the current carnivore diet, energy and focus and sleep is straight across the board. The only think that annoys me is physical pain and limitations caused by joint swelling. The good news is that it could be a lot worse and has been in the past. Also, going carnivore allowed me to maintain more muscle mass. I can actually do the things I need to do during the day instead of being a wasting body slogging it through each day.
Are you going to try some antibiotics from marshall protocol? I've heard good things about azithromycin and actually am trying it.
Whenever I hear anything about the so-called Mediterranean diet (which is mentioned a few posts up) I think of the story about the guy who went back to Greece to die and ended up living a long time. I'm not sure he would have had the same benefits if he ate veggies and whole grains back in the USA, LOL.
And they never mention all the other things besides veggies and whole grains that are in the Mediterranean diet. They eat pork, lamb, fish, cheese, wine, bread, eggs and fish eggs, booze... not just walnuts and whole grains lol. If there are benefits to living in the Mediterranean, I would say that living by the sea, bathing in it, and eating the foods from it, is often very healthful (because iodine and all the minerals are there). To return to the original topic, I think sunshine is healthful (and so I am skeptical of the MP). Volcanic soil also seems to grow very good food, and not just in gardens and orchards but also the grasses that the farm animals eat. And it's a beautiful and social place to be, especially if you are born there.