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What's most important? Marshall Protocol meets Vitamin A detox
Quote from rockarolla on July 22, 2021, 3:16 amAre you going to try some antibiotics from marshall protocol? I've heard good things about azithromycin and actually am trying it.
This is my third go round on the MP and I have never used antibiotics. My symptoms usually resolve themselves after about a year with only olmesartan.
I think abxs are a must otherwise not enough danger signals towards immune cells to kill bugs. Also suppressing the symptoms with olmesartan(AT1 inhibition) and getting a relapse several years later could be no different with ordinary pharma drugs which do exactly the same thing(promising and in most cases achieving remission via temporary degrading immune system receptors).
I have a gut feeling that limiting so called "vitamins" starting from A could be more productive and actually leading to robust immune activation as opposed to murky immune modulation with olmesartan. Also I do not understand how olm could hit tissue macrophages as opposed to VDBPs(holding D25) which are within proximity of every immune cell in the body for free D25 to be dispatched to VDR when required/needed.
Quote from rockarolla on July 22, 2021, 12:15 pmI think abxs are a must otherwise not enough danger signals towards immune cells to kill bugs. Also suppressing the symptoms with olmesartan(AT1 inhibition) and getting a relapse several years later could be no different with ordinary pharma drugs which do exactly the same thing(promising and in most cases achieving remission via temporary degrading immune system receptors).
I have a gut feeling that limiting so called "vitamins" starting from A could be more productive and actually leading to robust immune activation as opposed to murky immune modulation with olmesartan. Also I do not understand how olm could hit tissue macrophages as opposed to VDBPs(holding D25) which are within proximity of every immune cell in the body for free D25 to be dispatched to VDR when required/needed.
I can confidently say that olmesartan isn't just kicking the can down the road like other drugs that may relieve symptoms. The worst symptoms I have ever had in my life (age 27) was well before any olmesartan use and the recurring flares haven't ever been to that level.
I think once olmesartan is discontinued, vitamin A toxicity once again is thus allowed to interact with these nuclear receptors and gradually slide ones back down into dysregulation. But then again, the 2 flares I had before the 2011 event resolved themselves within around the same timeframe (12 months) and without olmesartan interaction.
The first flare was age 15. I wasn't drinking, smoking, drinking coffee or any of those kinds of things. I was in bodybuilding and that meant plenty of milk/diary/eggs and supplements. The second was age 20 and I started in on my quest of health through natural medicine and exotic, overpriced "superfood". The worst (age 27) was after years of plant foods, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, and stress. Vitamin A lays the foundation by which all these extra compounds exacerbate.
I remember how I used to try to raise vitamin D, but it didn't help me. In the light of VA, I will need to look at it differently. Maybe it's another toxin? One man developed parkinson's from taking 8000 IU of VD.
VA, VD, iron. What else do they enrich your food with there?)
Quote from Даниил on August 4, 2021, 11:13 amI remember how I used to try to raise vitamin D, but it didn't help me. In the light of VA, I will need to look at it differently. Maybe it's another toxin? One man developed parkinson's from taking 8000 IU of VD.
Vitamin D is a hormone and the test we run is for the inactive form, 25-D. Here in the States, they supplement our milk, milk substitutes, and cereals with it. Many other companies add it to various goods. Vitamin D is quite rare in nature.
Vitamin D and Vitamin A both compete for receptors. If your Vitamin A is high, the body may thusly convert the inactive form of Vitamin D into the active form, 1-25 D, it an attempt to dislodge or out compete the Vitamin A at the nuclear receptor. This then causes hormonal dysregulation, as 1-25 D also can interact at other receptors at these new, higher concentrations.
From Rockarolla -
From what I've recently read, it appears that vitamin A not only downregulates the number of VDR receptors, partly replaces calcitriol as an alternative VDR agonist/antagonist, but by inhibiting(as endotoxin TLR4 receptor antagonist) interferon gamma indirectly limits D25 bioavailability(i.e. spending) for IFN-gamma -> STAT1 -> (CYP27b1 & VDR) -> 25D -> D1.25 conversion:
Quote from Armin on August 4, 2021, 11:20 amQuote from Даниил on August 4, 2021, 11:13 amI remember how I used to try to raise vitamin D, but it didn't help me. In the light of VA, I will need to look at it differently. Maybe it's another toxin? One man developed parkinson's from taking 8000 IU of VD.
Vitamin D is a hormone and the test we run is for the inactive form, 25-D. Here in the States, they supplement our milk, milk substitutes, and cereals with it. Many other companies add it to various goods. Vitamin D is quite rare in nature.
Vitamin D and Vitamin A both compete for receptors. If your Vitamin A is high, the body may thusly convert the inactive form of Vitamin D into the active form, 1-25 D, it an attempt to dislodge or out compete the Vitamin A at the nuclear receptor. This then causes hormonal dysregulation, as 1-25 D also can interact at other receptors at these new, higher concentrations.
From Rockarolla -
From what I've recently read, it appears that vitamin A not only downregulates the number of VDR receptors, partly replaces calcitriol as an alternative VDR agonist/antagonist, but by inhibiting(as endotoxin TLR4 receptor antagonist) interferon gamma indirectly limits D25 bioavailability(i.e. spending) for IFN-gamma -> STAT1 -> (CYP27b1 & VDR) -> 25D -> D1.25 conversion:
Hormones can also be bad, like estrogen (for example).
Once upon a time, I was still surprised that beef does not contain this.
There was a study somewhere that patients with extremely low D25 level have a better chance to survive septic shock.
So endotoxin-based response for D25 could follow U-shaped curve.
I just realized that Marshall's idea of D25 < 12ng is to protect olmesartan user from excessive immune activation in case of high toxemia.
Toxemia leads to increased levels of free(vitamin d binding protein detached) D25 to be converted to D1.25 in macrophages).
It also increases serotonin. Now it is clear where Parkinson's came from.
I saw this on the Marshall Protocol site and it got me thinking. (picture linked below)
Olmesartan is supposed to be a VDR agonist. VDR receptor sites are being challenged by bacterial ligands and Vitamin A among others possibly. The body attempts to dislodge the compounds competing for the VDR receptor by skyrocketing 1,25 D production. This elevated 1,25 D however, interacts with other receptors of the body, so it isn't ideal. Insert Olmesartan and it wins the battle for VDR. That is why 1,25 D is proposed to drop once Olmesartan is added.
If Olmesartan takes the upper hand and the VDR resumes proper function, the immune system and all VDR cells in the body may get some reprieve from Vitamin A interaction. Detox may be attenuated in a proper way. However, once Olmesartan is discontinued, the Vitamin A issues may once again crop up when there is no competition.
That has been my experience it seems. It doesn't take long after quitting Olmesartan (1-2 years) before symptoms start to return. The original idea behind the Marshall Protocol is that microbes slowly accumulate over the years before coming to a head (sounds a lot like vitamin A insidiousness). I don't understand how microbes could take the upper hand so quickly after discontinuing Olmesartan. If it took 20ish years to cause all these issues and these issues resolve themselves in about 1-1.5 years (f0r me), why is the rebound so accelerated? I would think that removing all those pests would at least buy someone 5 years or so.
This lady had taken Olmesartan for 10 years and it has only been 3 years before issues returned.
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