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Why butter may be ok
I'm sorry if I came across like I was challenging you, I have just been trying to play devils advocate myself and thought it was interesting you had some case studies about successful high dose Vit A. It seems when I look into them the people are either still pretty sick after a while, or have something they just can't seem to get over...but still advocating the liver or whatever -like if they just ate more they'd feel better.
Yeah, I give him a pass too that's a long life it's just ironic, especially since some doctors are saying he lied about some results ....
Quote from harrymacdonald on December 4, 2018, 3:09 pmInteresting thoughts, thanks for sharing them
The problem with the idea that it's only supplemental vitamin A (VA) that is problematic, is that there are a number of countries which don't fortify food with VA but still suffer high levels of autoimmune disease. I live in one of them: the UK.
My opinion is that environmental toxins & pharmaceutical drugs are interfering with VA metabolism, meaning that smaller amounts become problematic. This is combined with the fact that VA is commonly used in cosmetics, multivitamins, skin care products & the sun cream which we've all been propagandised into using.
I think the loss of seasonality in our eating, and access to food from all over the globe has probably increased carotene consumption massively. The pasteurisation of dairy may have played a role, and we may actually be eating more of it because we put it on breakfast cereal and eat lots of yogurt, pizza & ice cream.
Then there are other food additives which may increase the absorption of vitamin A, like the "mono and diglycerides of fatty acids" that are in all the bread in the UK. I think we probably are exposed to a lot more VA now. If I think back to what people ate in Britain 100 years ago, it was probably bread, oats, white potatoes, leeks, onions, beef, lamb, pork, some raw & fresh milk/cheese, butter/lard/suet, seasonally: cabbage, carrot & beetroot, apples & pears, gooseberry & other berries. Most of these things are very low VA foods.
One thing that has confused me, are reports of people following Linus Pauling's work who've taken 50,000iu/day for 40 years without problem. These kind of stories make me wonder if the issue is a dysregulation of VA metabolism, analogous to the dysregulation of glucose metabolism that characterises diabetes, rather than the absolute quantity.
Another confusing thing is the people who cure autoimmune disease by going on the carnivore diet, who often eat large amounts of liver regularly. Maybe autoimmune disease is caused by VA for some people, but not all. Dunno?!
I agree with this. Most countries actually used animal fats like Lard and Suet, and vegetable fats from olives and nuts up until the turn of the century. Even Denmark did not traditionally use butter on bread, but rather spread lard. If you look at war rations in the UK, bacon fat and lard were more widely available than butter, and even cheese was typically limited to 1-2 oz a week. Children did have access to a a cup or two of milk a day.
Historically, butter and dairy products were in wider use among the wealthy, who also suffered from hosts of mysterious illnesses. My great grandmother grew up in a wealthy family in Iraq, and they would eat a lot of butter and cream based products. They'd boil fresh milk and scoop up the fresh cream which they'd turn into a cheese. My grandmother suffered from skin issues, spinal issues and eventually MS despite never taking a vitamin A supplement.
Is anyone including butter in their vit A free diet with good results?
I am still sceptic towards it due to its vit A content. But dr G lists it on his "eat this" list (but he does not specify amount) while olive oil is on the do not eat list due to green carotenlids. As a fertile female, i am a bit worried i will fxxx up my hormones by eating low fat, but vit A has probably fxxed it up good already in the first place xD
I eat some nuts and seeds for vit E, but then there is the pufa issue with that I guess. I prefer lean meats over fattier cuts but dont know if that is important? I did add olive oil to my diet but leg eczema has flared up again, with intermittent itchy skin, which could also be a part of detox.
Dr G also mentions gluten + vit A = vit A is transported into the tissue which is not good during detox. But some here seems to do well with pasta/bread? (and butter?)
Anyone?
I still consume gluten. I have not really implemented a real low vit A diet. I am experimenting a lot though.
Interesting that olive oil is a no, that might explain my debacle this week. If I can't use olive oil, I wonder what should be used as a liquid oil.
I have not noticed much of an effect from butter either negative or positive.
Quote from Liz on December 8, 2018, 11:33 pmIs anyone including butter in their vit A free diet with good results?
I am still sceptic towards it due to its vit A content. But dr G lists it on his "eat this" list (but he does not specify amount) while olive oil is on the do not eat list due to green carotenlids. As a fertile female, i am a bit worried i will fxxx up my hormones by eating low fat, but vit A has probably fxxed it up good already in the first place xD
I eat some nuts and seeds for vit E, but then there is the pufa issue with that I guess. I prefer lean meats over fattier cuts but dont know if that is important? I did add olive oil to my diet but leg eczema has flared up again, with intermittent itchy skin, which could also be a part of detox.
Dr G also mentions gluten + vit A = vit A is transported into the tissue which is not good during detox. But some here seems to do well with pasta/bread? (and butter?)
Anyone?
Bread does not equal gluten. The yeast breaks down the gluten and hydrolyzes it. The starch granules inflate with water. It is a very digestible form of glucose and the protein content is much more available due to fermentation. Unless you have celiac or some other gluten sensitivity, there is really no point in being even more restrictive. Some people can have problems with rice protein by the way. Grain tolerance is highly individualistic
I personally do better with almonds, coconut products, chocolate, beef fat, and olive oil. I think the refined olive oil might be better. Also, certain cold pressed vegetables might also be useful. The pufa is not necessarily bad, considering most pufa sources also happen to be excellent sources of vitamin e, magnesium, zinc, copper and other interesting minerals.
The reason Dr G recommends butter is for the butyric acid. But you can generate it if you eat enough fiber and resistance starch. Day old bread is actually a good source of resistance starch. Butter is probably fine in small amounts, but I don’t think there is enough butyric acid from it to make a difference. Another part to consider is that French butter has 25% less vitamin A than American butter, since cow feed in France is not fortified with vitamin A. They also don’t inject their cow’s with vitamin A.
-yh
Hi guests. I very much apreciate your inputs. Thank you 🙂
I only have access to swedish butter afaik. I wonder how much it differs from french, considering both countries being under european union law/guidelines? Matkalkyl.se lists (swedish) butter at 800 IU/100 g. That is the daily reccomendation for vit A here.
Thanks for the resistant starch reminder. Had totally forgot about that!
Dr G's gluten restriction seems to be mainly during the first 3-6 months. Gluten, like casein, acts like a vit A transporter and can transport back what we want out of the body. Most importantly seems organic be anyway, to avoid glyfosate.
I am NO fan of gluten free bread. There are hardly any to find here. But have free access to home made organic true sourdough bread
Guess time will tell 🙂 i get my itchy skin back from time to time so gotta be doing something right.
I would like to experiment with butter in the future. I really like the taste of it so I would like to add it back to my diet.
I recently found some buffalo's milk butter. It has half the Vitamin A content of cow's milk butter(4% of RDA vs 8%). The taste is more mild and is not as heavy. It also comes from Italy, so I imagine they don't fortify cow feed with beta carotene.
Quote from YH on December 30, 2018, 12:16 pmI recently found some buffalo's milk butter. It has half the Vitamin A content of cow's milk butter(4% of RDA vs 8%). The taste is more mild and is not as heavy. It also comes from Italy, so I imagine they don't fortify cow feed with beta carotene.
Do you mind sharing the brand name?
Quote from Bella on December 30, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from YH on December 30, 2018, 12:16 pmI recently found some buffalo's milk butter. It has half the Vitamin A content of cow's milk butter(4% of RDA vs 8%). The taste is more mild and is not as heavy. It also comes from Italy, so I imagine they don't fortify cow feed with beta carotene.
Do you mind sharing the brand name?
I actually made a mistake. It’s cows milk butter from Italy. It’s called Ferrarini. It’s probably the whitest butter I’ve ever seen.