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Why I don’t think that this is a legit theory anymore
PreviousPage 15 of 16Next Quote from
salt on December 3, 2021, 1:42 pm
Quote from
David on December 3, 2021, 7:35 am
@salt
Each to their own.
The consumed amount is also an important parameter as per:
(Total intake) = (Weight) x (Concentration per weight unit)
Say someone consumed 1000 g of beef muscle meat per day, which is a lot of meat. That might be around 340 mcg of beta-carotene on top of the small amount of retinol in beef (3-22 mcg/100 g), numbers from the 1988 Finnish study by M. Heinonen.
Just looking at beta-carotene and ignoring that different foods are absorbed differently, that would be like 5 grams of carrot (assuming beta-carotene concentration of ~8332 mcg/100 g). A really really small baby-carrot weighs about 5 grams according to this site and might be comparable with 1000 g of ground beef: https://farmhouseguide.com/how-much-baby-carrots-weigh/
I attach a picture from the same site showing how big a 5 g baby-carrot is.
Everyone can decide what they want to eat and feel comfortable with. I do think that the beta-carotene in some beef muscle meat products can be significant (but far from very large) if you eat large amounts of certain types of beef muscle meat.
Thank you @salt for the beta-carotene study in your other thread corroborating the beta-carotene levels measured in this 1988 study.
Well, I primarily go by my own empirical experience. I've gotten VA symptoms from eating grass-fed beef on multiple occassions so for me it has too much. But everyone seems to have their own level of sensitivity, if you don't get any negative reactions to it then it's probably not nearly as harmful to you. I could also mention that I personally seem to be more sensitive to carotenoids than to retinol/al, even very small amounts of carotenoids quickly give me symptoms.
I'm glad you found value in the studies I linked to in the other thread.
Quote from
David on December 3, 2021, 7:35 am
@salt
Each to their own.
The consumed amount is also an important parameter as per:
(Total intake) = (Weight) x (Concentration per weight unit)
Say someone consumed 1000 g of beef muscle meat per day, which is a lot of meat. That might be around 340 mcg of beta-carotene on top of the small amount of retinol in beef (3-22 mcg/100 g), numbers from the 1988 Finnish study by M. Heinonen.
Just looking at beta-carotene and ignoring that different foods are absorbed differently, that would be like 5 grams of carrot (assuming beta-carotene concentration of ~8332 mcg/100 g). A really really small baby-carrot weighs about 5 grams according to this site and might be comparable with 1000 g of ground beef: https://farmhouseguide.com/how-much-baby-carrots-weigh/
I attach a picture from the same site showing how big a 5 g baby-carrot is.
Everyone can decide what they want to eat and feel comfortable with. I do think that the beta-carotene in some beef muscle meat products can be significant (but far from very large) if you eat large amounts of certain types of beef muscle meat.
Thank you @salt for the beta-carotene study in your other thread corroborating the beta-carotene levels measured in this 1988 study.
Well, I primarily go by my own empirical experience. I've gotten VA symptoms from eating grass-fed beef on multiple occassions so for me it has too much. But everyone seems to have their own level of sensitivity, if you don't get any negative reactions to it then it's probably not nearly as harmful to you. I could also mention that I personally seem to be more sensitive to carotenoids than to retinol/al, even very small amounts of carotenoids quickly give me symptoms.
I'm glad you found value in the studies I linked to in the other thread.
David has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Kurtis on February 1, 2022, 1:30 am
Well I have to say i've lost a lot of faith in this woe, namely because after a very stressful event where I didn't sleep for 2 days i've developed POTS. My heart rate shoots up when I stand and blood pools in my peripheral limbs, it's kind of put my life on standby, lukily I can still somewhat work. Theoretically I haven't depleted all the VA in my liver, but you'd think being only 22 and following this diet pretty strictly for 2 years i'd be more resilient, but sadly not. So is this theory bunk or does healing really take the 5 years or so to have youthful resilience to things? I don't know. Some things have definitely improved like the color of my tongue has definitely changed from a white coating to more pink, my receding hairline has definitely sprouted more hairs but my hair is quite thinner now, and the lymph nodes on the back of my neck are now permanently reduced in size, but still raised. But I still evidently have liver/gallbladder issues because my billirubin is high, noted on a blood test, and now I have POTS where i'm teetering on the edge of disability.
I'm still going to continue on this diet because i'm not sure what else I would do to try and heal my body. I think blood donations may have been a culprit in weakening me, my ferritin is borderline deficient but not at the point where'd you'd think it'd cause POTS. Going forward I'm removing gluten as it's a known trigger of POTS episodes and supplementing iron/b12/vit c/b9 and doing routine easy exercise.
Well I have to say i've lost a lot of faith in this woe, namely because after a very stressful event where I didn't sleep for 2 days i've developed POTS. My heart rate shoots up when I stand and blood pools in my peripheral limbs, it's kind of put my life on standby, lukily I can still somewhat work. Theoretically I haven't depleted all the VA in my liver, but you'd think being only 22 and following this diet pretty strictly for 2 years i'd be more resilient, but sadly not. So is this theory bunk or does healing really take the 5 years or so to have youthful resilience to things? I don't know. Some things have definitely improved like the color of my tongue has definitely changed from a white coating to more pink, my receding hairline has definitely sprouted more hairs but my hair is quite thinner now, and the lymph nodes on the back of my neck are now permanently reduced in size, but still raised. But I still evidently have liver/gallbladder issues because my billirubin is high, noted on a blood test, and now I have POTS where i'm teetering on the edge of disability.
I'm still going to continue on this diet because i'm not sure what else I would do to try and heal my body. I think blood donations may have been a culprit in weakening me, my ferritin is borderline deficient but not at the point where'd you'd think it'd cause POTS. Going forward I'm removing gluten as it's a known trigger of POTS episodes and supplementing iron/b12/vit c/b9 and doing routine easy exercise.
Hermes and Retinoicon have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on February 1, 2022, 3:15 am
@kurtis detoxing excess of vit A from the body is not the answer for everything obviously. POTS is from adrenal fatigue I would say. It has nothing to do with vit A. You could have copper toxicity for example. High copper can deplete/damage the adrenals very easily.. But hard to say without testing.. There is like 1000 000 of reasons for any health issues. So saying vit A toxicity is BS because you have still health issues is crazy.. Detoxing vit A from the body will fix one thing which is vit A toxicity....
@kurtis detoxing excess of vit A from the body is not the answer for everything obviously. POTS is from adrenal fatigue I would say. It has nothing to do with vit A. You could have copper toxicity for example. High copper can deplete/damage the adrenals very easily.. But hard to say without testing.. There is like 1000 000 of reasons for any health issues. So saying vit A toxicity is BS because you have still health issues is crazy.. Detoxing vit A from the body will fix one thing which is vit A toxicity....
Quote from
Hermes on February 1, 2022, 6:16 am
@kurtis Have you ever tested serum vA in the blood? I've retested again recently and have been disappointed at the result. After almost three years of pretty strict low vA it's still way too high. I mention it b/c it might just take a freaking long time to deplete vA in some. But yeah, I totally can resonate with your sentiment of feeling stuck and not improving health despite the fact you're trying really hard. I hope you find the energy to continue with your healing journey.
@kurtis Have you ever tested serum vA in the blood? I've retested again recently and have been disappointed at the result. After almost three years of pretty strict low vA it's still way too high. I mention it b/c it might just take a freaking long time to deplete vA in some. But yeah, I totally can resonate with your sentiment of feeling stuck and not improving health despite the fact you're trying really hard. I hope you find the energy to continue with your healing journey.
Quote from
r on February 1, 2022, 6:27 am
Quote from
Hermes on February 1, 2022, 6:16 am
@kurtis Have you ever tested serum vA in the blood? I've retested again recently and have been disappointed at the result. After almost three years of pretty strict low vA it's still way too high. I mention it b/c it might just take a freaking long time to deplete vA in some. But yeah, I totally can resonate with your sentiment of feeling stuck and not improving health despite the fact you're trying really hard. I hope you find the energy to continue with your healing journey.
Fun fact
I have been trying to lower my vitamin A since 2017 , and I am still pretty toxic in vitamin A ( though lots of improvements , now I am able to live ) . It's a long journey , but what actually prolongs the journey is when we go on low vitamin A diet , trust me guy only when I went on a literal 0 vitamin A diet then only I saw improvements . we delay our depletion process but introducing foods that are low in vitamin A , but in reality it does more harm .
Quote from
Hermes on February 1, 2022, 6:16 am
@kurtis Have you ever tested serum vA in the blood? I've retested again recently and have been disappointed at the result. After almost three years of pretty strict low vA it's still way too high. I mention it b/c it might just take a freaking long time to deplete vA in some. But yeah, I totally can resonate with your sentiment of feeling stuck and not improving health despite the fact you're trying really hard. I hope you find the energy to continue with your healing journey.
Fun fact
I have been trying to lower my vitamin A since 2017 , and I am still pretty toxic in vitamin A ( though lots of improvements , now I am able to live ) . It's a long journey , but what actually prolongs the journey is when we go on low vitamin A diet , trust me guy only when I went on a literal 0 vitamin A diet then only I saw improvements . we delay our depletion process but introducing foods that are low in vitamin A , but in reality it does more harm .
Jude has reacted to this post.
@christian while I can understand your frustration, it is important to realize that we don't know all of Grant's situation as to his health other than VA poisoning. He did not judge his progress by VA blood testing, but by his symptoms (and basically being brought back from the brink of death!). It may be that you have had other issues in your health that he did not, to improve more quickly. Just saying. I know I am on Year 4 of low VA (not none, that is impossible) and while much has improved, I still have a ways to go. My most recent VA blood level was in the low 30's --
@christian while I can understand your frustration, it is important to realize that we don't know all of Grant's situation as to his health other than VA poisoning. He did not judge his progress by VA blood testing, but by his symptoms (and basically being brought back from the brink of death!). It may be that you have had other issues in your health that he did not, to improve more quickly. Just saying. I know I am on Year 4 of low VA (not none, that is impossible) and while much has improved, I still have a ways to go. My most recent VA blood level was in the low 30's --
Hermes and Retinoicon have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on February 1, 2022, 10:51 am
@r-2 you need to realize that eating diet close to zero vit A is very hard for most people, but eating diet low in vit A like around 1000iu a day is pretty easy. I have no problems to stay on this low vit A diet for as many years I will need 5-10 whatever. Also by eating close to zero vit A diet you can run into some issues from deficiency of other micronutrients. So you can slowly fix your vit A toxicity but also slowly deplete some essential micronutrients. Which I believe Grant will run into issues sooner or later..
@r-2 you need to realize that eating diet close to zero vit A is very hard for most people, but eating diet low in vit A like around 1000iu a day is pretty easy. I have no problems to stay on this low vit A diet for as many years I will need 5-10 whatever. Also by eating close to zero vit A diet you can run into some issues from deficiency of other micronutrients. So you can slowly fix your vit A toxicity but also slowly deplete some essential micronutrients. Which I believe Grant will run into issues sooner or later..
Quote from
r on February 1, 2022, 11:10 am
Quote from
Jiří on February 1, 2022, 10:51 am
@r-2 you need to realize that eating diet close to zero vit A is very hard for most people, but eating diet low in vit A like around 1000iu a day is pretty easy. I have no problems to stay on this low vit A diet for as many years I will need 5-10 whatever. Also by eating close to zero vit A diet you can run into some issues from deficiency of other micronutrients. So you can slowly fix your vit A toxicity but also slowly deplete some essential micronutrients. Which I believe Grant will run into issues sooner or later..
what's your diet like these days ?
Quote from
Jiří on February 1, 2022, 10:51 am
@r-2 you need to realize that eating diet close to zero vit A is very hard for most people, but eating diet low in vit A like around 1000iu a day is pretty easy. I have no problems to stay on this low vit A diet for as many years I will need 5-10 whatever. Also by eating close to zero vit A diet you can run into some issues from deficiency of other micronutrients. So you can slowly fix your vit A toxicity but also slowly deplete some essential micronutrients. Which I believe Grant will run into issues sooner or later..
what's your diet like these days ?
Quote from
Hermes on February 1, 2022, 12:35 pm
@kathy55wood You're right, everybody who comes to the low vA diet brings different issues with them. I, for instance, struggle with SIBO which makes it a challenge to eat soluble fiber like beans which only aggravates stomach issues, that leaves me with activated charcoal to bind the toxic bile. Thank you for the reminder that we are all in this together, that each one of us has unique struggles; and some of them might not even be tackled by diet.
What has improved for you and what do you still wish would change in the future?
@kathy55wood You're right, everybody who comes to the low vA diet brings different issues with them. I, for instance, struggle with SIBO which makes it a challenge to eat soluble fiber like beans which only aggravates stomach issues, that leaves me with activated charcoal to bind the toxic bile. Thank you for the reminder that we are all in this together, that each one of us has unique struggles; and some of them might not even be tackled by diet.
What has improved for you and what do you still wish would change in the future?
Quote from
Jiří on February 1, 2022, 1:03 pm
@r-2 still the same meat, oats, rice, beans, some corn pasta/polenta, onions, cucumbers, apples, bananas.. and just today I started with some broccoli for vit K1 and some vit C.. So still pretty low vit A diet. I have no desire to eat any foods high or even moderate in vit A...
@r-2 still the same meat, oats, rice, beans, some corn pasta/polenta, onions, cucumbers, apples, bananas.. and just today I started with some broccoli for vit K1 and some vit C.. So still pretty low vit A diet. I have no desire to eat any foods high or even moderate in vit A...
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