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A common deterioration one year after starting a low-vitamin A diet?
Quote from Jiří on January 9, 2026, 9:38 am@janelle525 I think how fast you run out depends on many factors like your metabolic rate and we know Grant has extremely slow metabolism. Consuming 1500kcal for adult male is crazy low.
Just to give you idea how low it is
Daily calorie rations in Nazi concentration camps were extremely low and varied by camp, year, and prisoner category, but historians have reconstructed approximate averages.
Typical daily calorie intake
1940–1942: ~1,300–1,700 kcal/day
1943–1944: ~700–1,200 kcal/day
Late war (1944–1945): often 500–800 kcal/day, sometimes even less
By comparison
A sedentary adult male needs ~2,000–2,400 kcal/day
Camp prisoners were forced into heavy physical labor, often needing 3,000+ kcal/day
Example (Auschwitz, adult male labor prisoner)
Approximate daily ration:
Black bread (~300 g): 600–700 kcal
Watery soup (potato/turnip): 200–300 kcal
Margarine or sausage (small): 100–200 kcal
Occasional extras (rare): <100 kcal
Total: usually 900–1,300 kcal/day
That shows how slow his metabolism is if he is not losing weight and is not hungry on so little calorie intake.. It means that his body will use all micronutrients very slowly. It also means that any detox of anything will be extremely slow. I wish he would do hair testing. He must be crazy slow oxidizer..
How does this paradox stack up against his activity level? Against his strength, endurance and comfort level?
Quote from Даниил on January 9, 2026, 12:09 pm@joe2
I am glad that you have succeeded on a low-vitamin A diet. But the caveat is that while many succeed on a low-vitamin A diet, many do not succeed. Even Grant himself admits that the success rate on the diet is still low. You're also forgetting about Vinero and Victor users who had eye problems on this diet and had to stop. And the fact that I had a psychosis.P.S. Today was my first working day for a long time, and I also cleaned snow. It turns out my health is better than I thought. I can stand for a long time if it's at least a bit dynamic load rather than static, but just stand like a post for more than an hour I'm hard.
@janelle525 the problem with the Grant is that I claim that the Grant may be a person who does not need vitamin A for genetic reasons, as well as some other people on this forum.
Standing is the most difficult task. Ask any military leader how best to torture new recruits. Try T'ai Chi or Chi Gong. Give yourself credit. Even more than you have. Meanwhile, please take into account that confounding factors make it easy to blame the wrong item for our problems. Ask any addict how they feel about their addiction. And know that all addictions are to toxins. All toxins are addictive. Withdrawal of a toxin after years of intake routinely causes all the symptoms that we try to avoid. Re-ingesting the addictive toxin routinely gives relief. At least temporary relief.
Here is to a future with slow enough and easy enough withdrawal to avoid further symptoms like psychosis.
Quote from Joe2 on January 10, 2026, 3:03 amQuote from Jiří on January 9, 2026, 9:38 am@janelle525 I think how fast you run out depends on many factors like your metabolic rate and we know Grant has extremely slow metabolism. Consuming 1500kcal for adult male is crazy low.
Just to give you idea how low it is
Daily calorie rations in Nazi concentration camps were extremely low and varied by camp, year, and prisoner category, but historians have reconstructed approximate averages.
Typical daily calorie intake
1940–1942: ~1,300–1,700 kcal/day
1943–1944: ~700–1,200 kcal/day
Late war (1944–1945): often 500–800 kcal/day, sometimes even less
By comparison
A sedentary adult male needs ~2,000–2,400 kcal/day
Camp prisoners were forced into heavy physical labor, often needing 3,000+ kcal/day
Example (Auschwitz, adult male labor prisoner)
Approximate daily ration:
Black bread (~300 g): 600–700 kcal
Watery soup (potato/turnip): 200–300 kcal
Margarine or sausage (small): 100–200 kcal
Occasional extras (rare): <100 kcal
That shows how slow his metabolism is if he is not losing weight and is not hungry on so little calorie intake.. It means that his body will use all micronutrients very slowly. It also means that any detox of anything will be extremely slow. I wish he would do hair testing. He must be crazy slow oxidizer..
How does this paradox stack up against his activity level? Against his strength, endurance and comfort level?
Ok here you have better example. Healthy males base line calorie intake to maintain weight 3500kcal after that they start to starve on Grants ratios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
That is response of healthy metabolism. To get skinny and hungry like that. If you get comfortable on so little calories as adult male average size that means your body adapted to that by slowing down metabolism like crazy..
The point on metabolism intersects with some pro-vitamin A arguments I saw from a Peater recently, @T3uncoupled on twitter. I think they are interesting so I'll share.
That account's hypothesis is that poor thyroid function means inefficient vitamin A metabolism, then accumulation. The hypothesis being that people who have issues with vitamin A have poor thyroid function.
The first study shows 30-45% reduction in liver vitamin A after injecting goats with thyroid.
The second is that beta carotene cannot be converted to retinol if the thyroid function is poor, so it gets stored in the skin.
Another interesting study they showed isn't thyroid related, but observes that vitamin A is stubbornly concentrated in the eyes, even when the storage organs like the liver are empty after a deficient diet. The argument here is that this points to the necessity of the molecule in the eye, otherwise the remainder would be sent to storage. The reverse situation of vitamin A spilling out of the liver, when in excess.
The fourth point I've heard from these guys is an argument, that Grant's low calorie needs and body temperature are evidence of poor thyroid, that was the root cause of his vitamin A issues.
On the other hand, Grant doesn't show other signs of hypothyroidism, so I think that last point needs some work.
I think it's an interesting hypothesis though, since other toxins like lead can impair thyroid function. So in such toxic people, I could believe that vitamin A issues would be downstream.
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Quote from Jiří on January 10, 2026, 3:38 amQuote from Joe2 on January 10, 2026, 3:03 amQuote from Jiří on January 9, 2026, 9:38 am@janelle525 I think how fast you run out depends on many factors like your metabolic rate and we know Grant has extremely slow metabolism. Consuming 1500kcal for adult male is crazy low.
Just to give you idea how low it is
Daily calorie rations in Nazi concentration camps were extremely low and varied by camp, year, and prisoner category, but historians have reconstructed approximate averages.
Typical daily calorie intake
1940–1942: ~1,300–1,700 kcal/day
1943–1944: ~700–1,200 kcal/day
Late war (1944–1945): often 500–800 kcal/day, sometimes even less
By comparison
A sedentary adult male needs ~2,000–2,400 kcal/day
Camp prisoners were forced into heavy physical labor, often needing 3,000+ kcal/day
Example (Auschwitz, adult male labor prisoner)
Approximate daily ration:
Black bread (~300 g): 600–700 kcal
Watery soup (potato/turnip): 200–300 kcal
Margarine or sausage (small): 100–200 kcal
Occasional extras (rare): <100 kcal
That shows how slow his metabolism is if he is not losing weight and is not hungry on so little calorie intake.. It means that his body will use all micronutrients very slowly. It also means that any detox of anything will be extremely slow. I wish he would do hair testing. He must be crazy slow oxidizer..
How does this paradox stack up against his activity level? Against his strength, endurance and comfort level?
Ok here you have better example. Healthy males base line calorie intake to maintain weight 3500kcal after that they start to starve on Grants ratios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
That is response of healthy metabolism. To get skinny and hungry like that. If you get comfortable on so little calories as adult male average size that means your body adapted to that by slowing down metabolism like crazy..
This prompts the question: who is healthier - Grant or your healthy males?
Quote from whatisaging on January 10, 2026, 9:04 amThe point on metabolism intersects with some pro-vitamin A arguments I saw from a Peater recently, @T3uncoupled on twitter. I think they are interesting so I'll share.
That account's hypothesis is that poor thyroid function means inefficient vitamin A metabolism, then accumulation. The hypothesis being that people who have issues with vitamin A have poor thyroid function.
The first study shows 30-45% reduction in liver vitamin A after injecting goats with thyroid.
The second is that beta carotene cannot be converted to retinol if the thyroid function is poor, so it gets stored in the skin.
Another interesting study they showed isn't thyroid related, but observes that vitamin A is stubbornly concentrated in the eyes, even when the storage organs like the liver are empty after a deficient diet. The argument here is that this points to the necessity of the molecule in the eye, otherwise the remainder would be sent to storage. The reverse situation of vitamin A spilling out of the liver, when in excess.
The fourth point I've heard from these guys is an argument, that Grant's low calorie needs and body temperature are evidence of poor thyroid, that was the root cause of his vitamin A issues.
On the other hand, Grant doesn't show other signs of hypothyroidism, so I think that last point needs some work.
I think it's an interesting hypothesis though, since other toxins like lead can impair thyroid function. So in such toxic people, I could believe that vitamin A issues would be downstream.
All these ideas only work in a scenario where Grant (and a growing list of us) are less healthy than we were. The reverse is true. Glaringly true. All these arguments make the point for us. Vitamin A is not a nutrient. If Grant's eyes need vitamin A and the eyes are hanging on to his last little bit of vitamin A as his liver is depleted, then good luck explaining his persistent eye sight improvement these last 11 years. And please include that growing list of us who are sharing similar improvements.
@joe2 Well there's more people who don't respond well to lowering vitamin A. An upstream toxin might be a better model for them.
Regarding eyesight, if I had to work within this theory of an upstream toxin, I'd say that the total improved lifestyle (restricted diet and blood donations) is lowering the iron burden on the body, rather than vitamin A in isolation. There's literature on the combination of iron and vitamin A being much worse for the eyes than vitamin A alone. Since bison has nontrivial beta carotene, there would still be just enough vitamin A for the eyes to function after 10 years, but without that iron burden.
Quote from whatisaging on January 10, 2026, 6:23 pm@joe2 Well there's more people who don't respond well to lowering vitamin A. An upstream toxin might be a better model for them.
Regarding eyesight, if I had to work within this theory of an upstream toxin, I'd say that the total improved lifestyle (restricted diet and blood donations) is lowering the iron burden on the body, rather than vitamin A in isolation. There's literature on the combination of iron and vitamin A being much worse for the eyes than vitamin A alone. Since bison has nontrivial beta carotene, there would still be just enough vitamin A for the eyes to function after 10 years, but without that iron burden.
How many of us eat a low vitamin A diet like Grant's? How many of us eat what we call a low vitamin A diet as it is much lower than what we previously ate?
That is one confounding factor.
How many of us eat a number of other toxins via food, pharma, supplements and plain old crap like Mike Stone?
That is an infinite number of confounding factors that compound on each other.
Feels like everyone else's experience gets the benefit of the doubt when we declare that depleting vitamin A does not improve health. Grant's experience on the other hand gets strawman and gaslit arguments all over in spite of the obvious truth that the guy has done something inexplicable by previous religious er I mean sciency beliefs.
Also, the rationalization of vitamin A intake helping Grant's eyes during the last 11 years is weak especially considering the idea of a lack of iron burden. How much more iron does bison have than beef? Or any other meat for that matter?
https://www.canadianbison.ca/consumers/why-bison/nutritional-value
Nutritional Value of Bison Meat | Canadian Bison Association
@joe2 the biggest problem with Grant is that we have almost no data apart from blood levels of vit A which if I am correct he never had toxic level in the blood?
So very hard to tell what really was/is going on. The diet rich in zinc and protein and low in other potential toxic compounds served him well at least at the beginning where is fixed all his major health issues. That's for sure.
I think that with vit A is it the same as with most micronutrients like iron or copper. That we need extremely small amount. The body is simply build more for dealing with low stores than with dealing with excess of stored stuff. I think that because Grant is getting hardly any sun or because he is not pushing his metabolism up by any means basically. His body needs for vit A are extremely low at this point. If he would start living with Paul Saladino, in Costa Rica, doing activities he is doing maybe the issues would rise very fast. It is like when you are low in micronutrients needed for all kinds of things, but because you are hypothyroid you don't notice any issues, because the body is using so little of those micronutrients. But as soon you start to take thyroid and you speed up your metabolism you start to have all kinds of issues. Because the body is speeding up and runts out of those micronutrients fast. SO you experience stuff like hair loss, teeth, bone issues whatever.
The problem with Grant and his experiment that he is doing on himself is that he is not doing any testing. We have no idea what is going on with him.
You think any mainstream medical/health/diet people will take him seriously when we have no data from him? Apart from the fact the he shows up once ever 3 years on some podcast and tells I am still here not blind?
So because of that I simply can't tell. Like I said based on from what I know I think his metabolism is extremely slow. Almost like in some hibernation mode and so vit A deficiency is probably the last think that would show up as some main health concern.
So unless we see extensive blood work from him we can only speculate.
Not to mention Grant is invested in this very deep. It is his life work at this point. Do you think there is any possibility that he would admit issues and that maybe he was wrong about stuff?
Like I said his health status is one big mystery. We don't know anything. We know for sure that this "you need RDA of vit A otherwise you will get blind in couple of months" is absolute bullshit and the range of how much vit A you can handle without any health issues is crazy wide. Like I said based on metabolic rate and other factors. But that's about it..
Grant is not helping much with the answers now due to the lack of any data about what is going on with him and because of his very restricted diet in terms of micronutrients and calories as well. Even if he had issues it would be hard to tell what is causing what.
Simply if anything happens to Grant(hopefully not) we would have no idea what or why..
Quote from Joe2 on January 10, 2026, 11:47 pmQuote from whatisaging on January 10, 2026, 6:23 pm@joe2 Well there's more people who don't respond well to lowering vitamin A. An upstream toxin might be a better model for them.
Regarding eyesight, if I had to work within this theory of an upstream toxin, I'd say that the total improved lifestyle (restricted diet and blood donations) is lowering the iron burden on the body, rather than vitamin A in isolation. There's literature on the combination of iron and vitamin A being much worse for the eyes than vitamin A alone. Since bison has nontrivial beta carotene, there would still be just enough vitamin A for the eyes to function after 10 years, but without that iron burden.
How many of us eat a low vitamin A diet like Grant's? How many of us eat what we call a low vitamin A diet as it is much lower than what we previously ate?
That is one confounding factor.
How many of us eat a number of other toxins via food, pharma, supplements and plain old crap like Mike Stone?
That is an infinite number of confounding factors that compound on each other.
Feels like everyone else's experience gets the benefit of the doubt when we declare that depleting vitamin A does not improve health. Grant's experience on the other hand gets strawman and gaslit arguments all over in spite of the obvious truth that the guy has done something inexplicable by previous religious er I mean sciency beliefs.
Also, the rationalization of vitamin A intake helping Grant's eyes during the last 11 years is weak especially considering the idea of a lack of iron burden. How much more iron does bison have than beef? Or any other meat for that matter?
https://www.canadianbison.ca/consumers/why-bison/nutritional-value
Nuitritional Value of Bison Meat | Canadian Bison Association
Indeed, there are confounding factors. Just like how if people only eat meat, rice, and some beans and donate blood, then this lifestyle change is not the same as reducing vitamin A alone.
Regarding iron, you are bringing up bison vs beef, as if blood donations are not part of the picture.
I would say that everyone's experiences are valid with the caveat that they have obvious limitations, so what we can conclude from any of this is limited. That's why it's good to discuss theories and try different things, and why I shared the above thyroid stuff.