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How does Accutane work?
When I first went lowered-VA my skin entered detox mode with bizarre, unmistakable sensations.
Could it be a simple as "if you put VA directly on your skin, your skin will stay out of detox mode, and stay, instead, in storage mode".
(I believe acne is a detox-mode device)
I once asked a wise oldie what acne was about and she said: "it's the bad in you coming out!". She didn't mean I'd been naughty. She meant toxins.
Quote from tim on June 23, 2020, 11:17 pm
This is odd, they are saying sebum production quickly returns to normal but acne does not usually return. Can Accutane users confirm this please?
Sebum production returned, with less sebum amount. Acne, I may have a bit sometimes, but even before taking Accutane I could easily control it with the diet. And my food intake has reduced because my digestion became slower so that can play a role in it. What has not returned at all is sweating on the face.
@tim-2 Just wanted to sum up some points, that affect me, and maybe not others.
Biotin - greatly increases sebum production, supposedly promotes hair growth. Biotin is known to accelerate/stimulate glucose/carb metabolism
B5 - Stops sebum flow, hair shedding. B5 is known to accelerate ffa/fat metabolism, by driving up CoA.
So if B5 does increase 13-cis production, I can see how it would stop sebum flow like accutane.
But is it sebum stopping or the body now converting to fat metabolism and burning through all fats for energy, while glucose metabolism slows.
Not sure if this is hypothyroidism at play, since one day of low dose accutane will stop sebum flow, and after stopping accutane sebum flow goes right back up to excessive levels next day. So there is either a very quick energy metabolism change or something is happening directly in the sebaceous gland output.
Thank you all for describing your experiences with Accutane.
The studies you posted seem to be discussing the esterification of retinoic acid rather than the production of it?
CoA is actually used for moving retinol in and out of the liver via this chemical reaction:
acyl-CoA + retinol <=> CoA + retinyl ester
Perhaps even in Hypervitaminosis A that doesn't put a stress on bodily CoA reserves however if it does and pantothenic acid works because it boosts CoA (CoA production seems to be B5's sole or primary role so that is almost certain) then that could perhaps explain why Hypervitaminosis A causes oily skin?
If Hypervitaminosis A is a major depletor of CoA then that would explain why pantothenic acid only works temporarily.
It seems unlikely that Accutane works by boosting CoA so I don't see how 13-cis would fit into this but I see one possibility:
Studies show an inverse correlation between BMI and acne. Hypothyroidism is correlated with BMI while hyperthyroidism is inversely correlated, therefore acne sufferers are more likely to have overactive thyroids than underactive thyroids. In hyperthyroidism fat mobilization and oxidation is accelerated. Would this not deplete CoA reserves? What if Accutane works by lowering excessive thyroid function thereby allowing CoA reserves to recover?
If Hypervitaminosis A causes hyperthyroidism then CoA will be depleted by both of these conditions simultaneously and oily skin is far more likely to occur than without these conditions! If gut dysbiosis prevents production of pantothenic acid from gut flora then it is even more likely.
There are the symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Are these common in acne sufferers and in those with Hypervitaminosis A (thyroid activity is significantly affected by it but I think it can swing it to hypo or hyper)?
Major clinical signs include weight loss (often accompanied by an increased appetite), anxiety, heat intolerance, hair loss (especially of the outer third of the eyebrows), muscle aches, weakness, fatigue, hyperactivity, irritability, high blood sugar,[citation needed] excessive urination, excessive thirst, delirium, tremor, pretibial myxedema (in Graves' disease), emotional lability, and sweating. Panic attacks, inability to concentrate, and memory problems may also occur. Psychosis and paranoia, common during thyroid storm, are rare with milder hyperthyroidism. Many persons will experience complete remission of symptoms 1 to 2 months after a euthyroid state is obtained, with a marked reduction in anxiety, sense of exhaustion, irritability, and depression. Some individuals may have an increased rate of anxiety or persistence of affective and cognitive symptoms for several months to up to 10 years after a euthyroid state is established.[7] In addition, those with hyperthyroidism may present with a variety of physical symptoms such as palpitations and abnormal heart rhythms (the notable ones being atrial fibrillation), shortness of breath (dyspnea), loss of libido, amenorrhea, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, gynecomastia and feminization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthyroidism#Signs_and_symptoms
How fast does megadose B5 work compared with Accutane for you? Does sebum production stop to the same degree? Does sebum flow start up again just as quickly?
The speed at which sebum flow changes for you makes a thyroid explanation seem superficially implausible but if Accutane can change thyroid function quickly then I think it's the most likely explanation so far.
Quote from tim on June 24, 2020, 9:17 pmHow fast does megadose B5 work compared with Accutane for you? Does sebum production stop to the same degree? Does sebum flow start up again just as quickly?
The speed at which sebum flow changes for you makes a thyroid explanation seem superficially implausible but if Accutane can change thyroid function quickly then I think it's the most likely explanation so far.
@tim-2 low dose accutane, 2.5mg taken every other day, will completely stop sebum in few days. Mega doses of B5( 2 to 8grams/day) will completely stop sebum in few days. They both work very quickly, when you stop them, sebum will come back in full force within a few days. Tested this many times.
This would be why I would question it being hypothyroidism driven, since it happens so fast. But it could be, just a rapid occurrence..
Ok that does sound like they could be working through the same pathway. That sounds really frustrating seeing the problem disappear and then come back.
Another thought:
Iodine seems to often cause acne flare ups for many. If someone is hyperthyroid then excess iodine could exacerbate it and have the opposite effect of Accutane.
I can't think of any other reason iodine would cause acne?
Quote from tim on June 25, 2020, 6:57 amOk that does sound like they could be working through the same pathway. That sounds really frustrating seeing the problem disappear and then come back.
Another thought:
Iodine seems to often cause acne flare ups for many. If someone is hyperthyroid then excess iodine could exacerbate it and have the opposite effect of Accutane.
I can't think of any other reason iodine would cause acne?
@tim-2 I have done mega high dose iodine experiments(weeks), I have tried everything 🙂 And for my experience iodine did not affect my acne in a good or bad way.
For me acne is all tied to sebum production, more sebum, more food for p. acnes, pore inflammation, pimples. Stop the sebum, acne goes away. But there are people who have really oily skin and do not suffer excessive skin issues, so the immune response, and guess the contents of each persons sebum differ as well.
@tim-2 "I can't think of any other reason iodine would cause acne?"
Detoxing other halogens? Or simply faster metabolism = faster detox of everything, organs can't keep up so the body will use "third kidney" the skin to release waste..