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All Roads Lead To Anhydroretinol: The Sneaky Vitamin A metabolite that causes Vitamin A Toxicity
Quote from Bella on March 27, 2024, 12:29 pm@janelle525, it’s ironic that it was actually a carnivore/ketoAF proponent (Amber O’Hearn) that pointed out that many longtime carnivore diet adherents do not use salt and I actually gave it up when I was still mainly eating carnivore. I agree with you that if a person needs to pound salt to function it’s a bad sign and indicates a deeper issue. I’m not sure if my situation is optimal either-I’m just doing what works best for me. Hahaha
Yeah I think needing to pound salt might indicate a problem, this person's TSH was 4 something and was trying out eating eggs again for the iodine. So that might be the reason for the salt as we know hypothyroidism leads to loss of minerals.
Quote from Jessica2 on March 29, 2024, 4:39 am@luke Your idea that folate in all forms is toxic because it's recommended in similar ways to VA is weak.
Iron is necessary to life and is needed for many functions. Too much is toxic. It doesn't change the fact that iron is necessary and needed for human nutrition. This applies to copper as well. It might not fit a paradigm we want to make about the poison model of human nutrition, but its a fact. There does exist nutrients we need but not excessive and supplemental amounts. But sometimes supplementing is necessary.
This actually applies to magnesium as well. Just look up "symptoms of too much magnesium" you can get too much and have symptoms because of it, but it doesn't change the fact that magnesium is needed. This principle applies to just about every nutrient we take in.
And just because supplement companies exist and offer products for sale, this means that a shadowy group of world controllers is trying to very very very slowly kill us by getting us to use supplements? I'm tired of this paranoid thinking. Many companies and corporations exist to try and get our money, does this mean Nike is trying to kill me with its shoes, or that clothing companies are trying to deliberately kill me with their clothes? No I don't think they are deliberately trying to "poison" us with this. Its enough to understand they want our money, and can sometimes be careless enough to not offer quality products, but "they are trying to kill us with supplements" isn't an argument, its a delusion.
Woah woah woah now. Don’t you know, everything is toxic. 😂
He wasn't referring to food based folate. I do think we need to think outside the modern box we've been living in. Humans existed for thousands of yrs before supplement companies were around. I've been getting non fortified flour and pasta because I think folic acid and iron shavings is not good. Many people are saying they can tolerate wheat in Europe but not the US. Europe uses just as much herbicide so I think it's the 'vitamins' and iron shavings in the US.
I haven't re read his post, but it would be hard to be against consuming foods that have folate! I do know high folate foods like spinach kale and collard greens have other issues. It's not the folate.
I do agree we can't be paranoid about companies trying to kill us. But yeah they don't have our best interest in mind.
Quote from Luke on March 25, 2024, 10:52 amAlso, I'll share what's in my supplementation toolbox, just in case it offers any helpful insights. Please note that I don't take these every day; I use them intermittently unless specified otherwise. Over the past 15 years, I've refined my list, which represents the culmination of tens of thousands of hours of research.
Minerals:
- Calcium (as hydroxyapatite): 750mg, as needed
- Magnesium (as glycinate): 400mg, as needed
- Magnesium Topical Spray: 400-800mg, daily
- Copper (as glycinate): 6mg, daily
- Boron (as glycinate): 10mg, as needed
- Molybdenum (as glycinate): 500mcg, as needed
- Zinc (as methionine): 30mg, as needed
- Selenium (as methionine): 200mcg, as needed
- Manganese (as citrate): 8mg, as needed
- Iodine (as Lugols): 25-50mg, daily
- Salt: to taste
- Potassium (as chloride): 1.5g, daily
Other:
- Taurine: 5g, daily
- Glucose: 30g, daily. I see this as a form of supplementation. Zero carb doesn't seem logical to me. Glucose plays a vital role (in GAGs, Glucuronidation, etc.). Consuming 30g of glucose each day can maintain ketosis while alleviating many of the burdens associated with gluconeogenesis.
- Glycine: 10-15g, daily
- Ubiquinol: 200mg, daily
- Niacin (as nicotinic acid): 3g, daily
- Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid): 3g, daily
- K2 (as MK7): 100mcg, daily
- Choline (as bitartrate): 500mg, daily
- Creatine: 5g, daily
- TMG: 1g, daily
- B1 (as Thiamine HCL): 500mg, as needed
- Melatonin: 10mg, daily
- Apple Pectin: 2.8g, as needed
- Psyllium Fiber: as needed
- Activate Charcoal: as needed
- Glucuronolactone: as needed
Food:
Typically, I consume 1.5 pounds of organic, grass-fed/finished 90/10 beef per day. I prepare 3 pounds at once, which takes me about 10 minutes and feeds me for 2 days. To this, I add 3 tablespoons of pure glucose (roughly 30g of sugar) for every 1.5 pounds, along with salt and powdered shiitake mushrooms to enhance the umami flavor. I find myself craving this meal and thoroughly enjoy it. Nowadays, most spices and sauces evoke a sense of repulsion in me, which is quite a shift considering I used to be a salsa fiend.
Depending on whether I'm following a keto diet or not (I cycle often), I'll adjust my additional calorie intake accordingly. When on keto, I supplement with coconut oil to ensure I reach at least 2200 calories per day. If not on keto, I consume 2 cups of organic sprouted oats (1 cup in the morning and 1 in the evening).
I steer clear of fructose as it tends to trigger psychiatric disturbances for me. I anticipate maintaining this dietary approach indefinitely, so long as my health outcomes remain consistent. I feel more liberated in my dietary choices than ever before, devoid of cravings, and relish the freedom from food dominating so much of my mental real estate.
I’m really intrigued by how you’ve designed your diet. I think I’m going to try it out after lent since I miss the simplicity of muscle meat carnivore but do better with some carbs and beef or lamb and oats are the foods I tolerate best. Thanks for sharing how you eat sir!
@luke, I also like your macros on the beef and oats. I think that’s one thing that deserves more attention in the community. I figured out last year that I personally do best with 30-40% of my calories from protein. Many things improved for me when I incorporated that into my lifestyle. It seems to be crucial for me for healing/maintaining my health. I experimented with lowering it back down to the 20% range recently and within a couple weeks I realized it was a mistake. I’m suspecting some people might just need more protein. Not everyone of course but I think it’s a worthwhile thing to look at for people not thriving or experiencing improvements.
Quote from Jessica2 on March 29, 2024, 7:55 am@janelle525 then Alex is right and Luke doesn't really know a lot about nutrition. Folate is the naturally occurring form of vitamin B9. If Luke believes that folate in all its forms is toxic then he is indeed talking about non supplemental and natural forms of vitamin B9; folate.
Folic acid is the synthetic supplemental form used for fortifications.
It sure sounds to me based on rereading his post that he believes even natural and non-supplemental forms of folate, that is natural vitamin B9, is toxic like many think vitamin A is.
Of course I agree we need to think outside the box but I don't think throwing babies out with bath water is well advised or a good strategy either.
I don't think anyone is more inclined to listen to Alternative positions by claiming that Merck executives have it in for their lives. Are they greedy and negligent? Sure. Are they taking a personal interest in trying to slowly, and I mean very slowly and very inefficiently, poison Americans to death with vitamins? I don't really know about that one. Seems like they are happy siphoning money off and outright killing or poisoning stops the gravy train. Like so many execs and government people, they just seem greedy and self interested. Self interest on their part doesn't automatically mean they desire our death and sickness. They just don't care, only about themselves.
It really is a strawman's argument to say just because folate has been shown to have some toxicity that this means all forms of folate are toxic for us. Folate is sooo much more important than Vitamin A and it doesn't do the same things as Vitamin A. Folate is required to convert the toxic amino acid homocysteine into the vital amino acid methionine and critical for dna repair and methylation (see folate cycle). Also vegetables contain the same methyl folate that is sold as supplements.
Folate plays a crucial role in DNA synthesis and repair through its involvement in one-carbon metabolism. One-carbon metabolism is a series of biochemical reactions that provide one-carbon units necessary for the synthesis of DNA precursors, such as thymidine, as well as for DNA methylation reactions.
Here's how folate contributes to DNA repair:
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Thymidine Synthesis: Folate is required for the synthesis of thymidine, one of the four nucleotides that make up DNA. Thymidine is synthesized from deoxyuridine monophosphate (dUMP) in a reaction catalyzed by the enzyme thymidylate synthase. Folate provides the one-carbon units necessary for the conversion of dUMP to dTMP (deoxythymidine monophosphate). This process ensures an adequate supply of thymidine for DNA replication and repair.
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Methylation Reactions: Folate is also involved in DNA methylation reactions, which play roles in gene regulation, chromatin structure, and DNA repair. Methylation involves the addition of a methyl group (CH3) to DNA, typically at cytosine bases within CpG dinucleotides, forming 5-methylcytosine. Folate provides the methyl group needed for this reaction indirectly by contributing to the synthesis of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM), which serves as a methyl donor in DNA methylation reactions.
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Maintenance of Nucleotide Pools: Folate helps maintain an adequate supply of nucleotides for DNA synthesis and repair by participating in the synthesis of purines (adenine and guanine) in addition to thymidine. Purines are also essential components of DNA, and their availability is important for DNA repair processes.
Quote from AlexM on March 31, 2024, 4:58 am
Folate plays a crucial role in DNA synthesis and repair through its involvement in one-carbon metabolism. One-carbon metabolism is a series of biochemical reactions that provide one-carbon units necessary for the synthesis of DNA precursors, such as thymidine, as well as for DNA methylation reactions.
Here's how folate contributes to DNA repair:
Thymidine Synthesis: Folate is required for the synthesis of thymidine, one of the four nucleotides that make up DNA. Thymidine is synthesized from deoxyuridine monophosphate (dUMP) in a reaction catalyzed by the enzyme thymidylate synthase. Folate provides the one-carbon units necessary for the conversion of dUMP to dTMP (deoxythymidine monophosphate). This process ensures an adequate supply of thymidine for DNA replication and repair.
Methylation Reactions: Folate is also involved in DNA methylation reactions, which play roles in gene regulation, chromatin structure, and DNA repair. Methylation involves the addition of a methyl group (CH3) to DNA, typically at cytosine bases within CpG dinucleotides, forming 5-methylcytosine. Folate provides the methyl group needed for this reaction indirectly by contributing to the synthesis of S-adenosylmethionine (SAM), which serves as a methyl donor in DNA methylation reactions.
Maintenance of Nucleotide Pools: Folate helps maintain an adequate supply of nucleotides for DNA synthesis and repair by participating in the synthesis of purines (adenine and guanine) in addition to thymidine. Purines are also essential components of DNA, and their availability is important for DNA repair processes.
I don't have an opinion on folate, but at least now I know what ChatGPT thinks.