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All Roads Lead To Anhydroretinol: The Sneaky Vitamin A metabolite that causes Vitamin A Toxicity
@bella, wow that is great! I guess I shouldn't have said 'everyone' haha. I just figure salt is necessary, but if you are healthy I suppose salt is just a burden for the kidneys to get rid of. Good thyroid health good carb intake can probably retain lots of minerals. I noticed people on carnivore need a lot of electrolytes I think that's a bad sign. Shows the kidneys don't hold on to them. Makes it dangerous. One guy I was watching says he even drinks sole water. And on top of that uses an electrolyte mix. I mean if he needs it absolutely he needs it, ketosis seems to be stressful.
Quote from Bella on March 27, 2024, 3:51 am@inger, many people get extremely emotional when I mention this so I don’t talk about it much. I had mild hyponatremia on blood work and low blood pressure issues (75/55) from late 2021 through the spring of 2022 post vax shedding exposures and was trying to fix these issues with more salt to no avail.
I’ve gradually had to make an about face on all my sacred cow health beliefs since 2017 so I’m amazed at the confidence many people have on their stances. I’ve been humbled repeatedly by realizing how wrong I’ve been over and over.
@bella I have never tried to go without salt so far, but maybe i should just because I am curious to see if it makes any difference. I am like you in that sense that I have been so wrong on so many things in my life. I thought I knew, until I fell head forward and had to realize I had only hurt myself.....
@Inger, it’s a tough call. I’ve never recommended others do what I do because I honestly just don’t know enough about another person’s situation and needs. My response was more one of pointing out that not everyone needs to supplement salt. 🙂
It was definitely a last ditch effort for me and I’m so very grateful it worked out. It could just be something different about me personally and how my body handles sodium.
If we look back at the estimated sodium:potassium ratio of hunter gatherers though they were quite different from our modern times. Some people attempt to correct this by adding in more potassium via supplements but I tend to gravitate towards a less is more approach to things just because of my past experiences of messing myself up with numerous (not limited to vA) crazy supplement experiments. There seems to be two camps on salt/sodium and I don’t think either one is 100% right for everyone and in every situation. All I know is that for me personally my body does a lot better when I do not add it into my diet by salting foods and also by avoiding sodium laden processed foods. There are times I get more sodium than my current norm like when traveling, eating out in restaurants or eating at family gatherings and it always sets me back a couple days.
I’m glad we can talk about these things though. I definitely tend towards the sensitive side so there’s that as well…
Quote from Luke on March 25, 2024, 9:53 amI hold the belief that folate, in all its forms, is toxic.
@luke What lead you to this belief? It shows me you have no idea what you are speaking about. We need folate to synthesise and repair DNA, we need it to produce red blood cells, we need for neurotransmitter synthesis and proper immune system function.
I'm wondering if you had a bad reaction to folate supplements which led you to think this, if that is the case then it will mean you have toxicities like a lot of people have today but it doesn't mean folate is toxic....
Quote from Janelle525 on March 26, 2024, 8:45 am@luke hey thanks for replying!
I believed that chemicals no matter if they are synthetic or natural were exactly the same, but our body clearly reacts to synthetics much different. I brought up the choline thing because if you look at the negative reviews of choline bitartrate on amazon, over and over again you will see a similar pattern. People commenting that it smelled horrible and that it made them sick, a few went to the ER. Wikipedia stated it breaks down easily to trimethylamine, not exactly something that's healthy. This is why synthetics are inferior. They break down and are contaminated. You may be able to find a fresh batch, some commented they tried a different brand and found it didn't smell, but still it isn't a stable chemical, which necessitates buying fresh bottles so that you aren't consuming something that is putting a burden on your system.
I don't personally react that well to eggs either, but it could be the egg white, I have not tried just an egg yolk a day. I think most eggs are overloaded in toxic carotenoids due to the feed. So it's not the egg's fault. It's the feed.
Anyway, my point was that unless you have a documented deficiency I think supplements aren't extending people's lives. Grant got well by eating real food. I agree with him to be cautious about supplements, health isn't found in a capsule. I do think they can be good crutches, but no one ever said 'crutches made me healthy', they facilitated healing, but it wasn't the thing that cured them unless like I said there's a documented deficiency. Minerals can be a different story, we obviously need a certain amount of minerals. The copper, manganese, and boron are questionable. Manganese and copper toxicity is incredibly hard to treat, according to Chris Masterjohn you want 4 times the amount of iron as manganese always every single day otherwise instead of iron overload you get manganese overload and if you do have the genes for iron overload you may want to limit manganese to 2 mg a day. Boron seems estrogenic.
When I was researching thiamine I stumbled on a youtuber who claimed he nearly died from thiamine deficiency, a year later and he's still sick. Was it really a thiamine deficiency if he wasn't cured by thiamine? He goes over how he was starved and neglected as a child, sounds like that's the thing that ultimately made him sick later on (adverse childhood experiences are risk factors for severe illness in adults), not thiamine deficiency. When they discovered thiamine they could completely cure animals with it, it wasn't like a partial recovery, it was complete recovery. Chickens who were dying of beriberi completely cured rapidly. Same with any nutrient deficiency that I know of. But nowadays you have people claiming they need 3 grams niacin a day or 2,000 mg of thiamine hcl, or 10,000 grams of ascorbic acid a day. I do wonder about that so called 'vitamin dependency' thing. Sounds like drug like effects not nutrient deficiency. Which is fine if you know you are using it that way.
Abram Hoffer has stated many times if his patients went off the niacin the problem came right back...doesn't that sound similar to what happens when someone goes off their medication? I've heard people rationalize this away claiming they have genetic defects that require the nutrient in large amounts. Yep sure mhm. I guess we can say the same thing about antihistamines "well I just have genetic problems with histamine therefore I need this drug to prevent allergies". I just don't want to live my life that way anymore as I feel pretty normal off the supplements so do I really have a genetic defect? No I think life just causes an accumulation of 'junk' so then we need supps/drugs to treat the junk circulating around all the time.
Hey @janelle525
I believe this segways us into some crucial discussions. I intend to respond in the next few days once my schedule eases up. Thank you for your response!
Quote from Bella on March 26, 2024, 11:30 am@luke, thanks for the detailed response on both your perspective and your personal approach. I really enjoy hearing how others approach their low A lifestyle. I do believe at a point we all have to tailor things for our own particular goals, preferences and tolerances. Continuing to have discussions about all of this is very important imo.
Thank you Bella @bella !
I couldn't agree more. It's vital to exchange ideas. Thank you for your valuable feedback and perspective and kindness!
Quote from AlexM on March 27, 2024, 10:40 amQuote from Luke on March 25, 2024, 9:53 amI hold the belief that folate, in all its forms, is toxic.
@luke What lead you to this belief? It shows me you have no idea what you are speaking about. We need folate to synthesise and repair DNA, we need it to produce red blood cells, we need for neurotransmitter synthesis and proper immune system function.
Hi Alex @alexm
I had no idea about the significance of Folate!! Thank you for sharing. Another nutrient, Vitamin A, also plays critical roles in DNA synthesis and repair, red blood cell production, neurotransmitter synthesis, and immune function. It's interesting to note that the treatment doses for both nutrients are similar, around 1 mg. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to supplement them at a 1:1 ratio to turbocharge the repair of my DNA?
I've noticed that the government adds folate to many foods. Should I consider this when calculating my daily intake? On a side note, my friend's wife is pregnant. I've learned that both Vitamin A and Folate can help prevent neural tube defects at certain doses, but they can cause them if taken in excess. Therefore, I want to ensure she takes the appropriate dose. What dosage would you recommend for her?
Thanks so much again! Putting in my order for methyl-tetrahydrofolate to Merck right now!
@janelle525, it’s ironic that it was actually a carnivore/ketoAF proponent (Amber O’Hearn) that pointed out that many longtime carnivore diet adherents do not use salt and I actually gave it up when I was still mainly eating carnivore. I agree with you that if a person needs to pound salt to function it’s a bad sign and indicates a deeper issue. I’m not sure if my situation is optimal either-I’m just doing what works best for me. Hahaha
Quote from Luke on March 27, 2024, 11:39 amQuote from AlexM on March 27, 2024, 10:40 amQuote from Luke on March 25, 2024, 9:53 amI hold the belief that folate, in all its forms, is toxic.
@luke What lead you to this belief? It shows me you have no idea what you are speaking about. We need folate to synthesise and repair DNA, we need it to produce red blood cells, we need for neurotransmitter synthesis and proper immune system function.
Hi Alex @alexm
I had no idea about the significance of Folate!! Thank you for sharing. Another nutrient, Vitamin A, also plays critical roles in DNA synthesis and repair, red blood cell production, neurotransmitter synthesis, and immune function. It's interesting to note that the treatment doses for both nutrients are similar, around 1 mg. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to supplement them at a 1:1 ratio to turbocharge the repair of my DNA?
I've noticed that the government adds folate to many foods. Should I consider this when calculating my daily intake? On a side note, my friend's wife is pregnant. I've learned that both Vitamin A and Folate can help prevent neural tube defects at certain doses, but they can cause them if taken in excess. Therefore, I want to ensure she takes the appropriate dose. What dosage would you recommend for her?
Thanks so much again! Putting in my order for methyl-tetrahydrofolate to Merck right now!
@luke why would you supplement...? Why dont just get it from foods? It is so much better. Safer. There are always co factors and a myriad of other things we are not aware of that will impact the assimilation and function in the body