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Antidote?
talking about cravings.. it seems like my body is starting to get more in tune with its needs now, as I stopped all stimulants and doing the beans religiously. No coffee, nicotine, alcohol (I have cheated a bit on this but I can feel strongly after it was not worth it..) and I also dont use much spices as I love my food quite plain, just seasalt. I was ravenous in the beginning but now I seem to be less hungry and its like absorption has increased somehow. Its nice!
I am not going to lie, it is an up and down though, some days I am still really tired, but I know it takes at least 3 months on the bean protocol to see results for many, and i have been only 2 months and can really feel some benefits already, and my gallbladder/liver seems to have healed quite a bit. I am not regretting it at all, to try this out 🙂
Quote from Jessica2 on April 5, 2023, 2:03 pmSo going back over the extremely helpful EFA information posted here recently, I've come to this initial reaction:
For someone like me and those of us here super concentrated on health, we could indeed be suffering from lack of a >quality< omega 6. I haven't been that religious about getting walnuts or any nuts and sunflower seeds and I do avoid the mega bottles of supermarket oil like the plague. I also avoid fast fried food and even if someone DID indulge in that, it seems the omega 6's are probably damaged and/or rancid. And I've actually kind of avoided nuts BECAUSE they contain omega 6's, crazily enough.
Looking back on the info Puddleduck posted about grain fed beef, even that doesn't seem that high in omega 6 given the article I posted in health line saying 12 grams is a good amount. (I think there is like 1 gram of omega 6 in 100 grams of grain fed beef if I read it correctly)
So again, I will take the EPO I have and I'm curious how I will feel when finished. Should take about 25 days. I will also try to eat almonds and walnuts (especially walnuts) everyday.
I will also begin EPO and report on my experience in a month. I have avoided nuts for almost 4 years expect for the odd one here and there. I've only recently added sunflower seeds back in. Since adding eggs I seem to be able to tolerate higher amounts of fats. I also want to try cold pressed flax oil but think it's best to wait until I've tried the EPO.
@jessica2 I cracked open my bottle of flax oil this morning, out of curiosity, and it is super bitter.
I don't have a freezer but I like the idea of grinding my own flax seeds as I need them, thanks for the tip.
I will use the flax oil topically and see what it does.
One potential mechanism by which ALA (at least via conversion to EPA and DHA) may help VA toxicity is via downregulation of the kynurenine pathway, which is known to block ALDH. Not sure if this would be applicable to omega-6 and/or how much of a role this could play.
I first heard about the effect of EPA on downregulation of the kynurenine pathway via Andrew Huberman. He starts talking about the topic at ~1:00 here but specifically discusses the kynurenine pathway at about ~1:04:
https://hubermanlab.com/understanding-and-conquering-depression/
Apparently DHA has this same effect:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5540223/
Upregulation of the kynurenine pathway has been discussed by Jenny (won't let me tag her) here. Her post from February 5, 2023 at 8:33 a.m. puts it succintly: upgregulation of kynurenine can block ALDH:
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/nad-deficiency-is-this-a-major-issue-for-va-toxicity-detox/
Haven’t had time to read this yet, but you’ll likely find this one interesting @pattycake (it’s a randomized, double-blind trial using EPO supplementation for patients taking isotretinoin for acne, just published a year ago):
Interesting.
I remember that Jenny Jones did a lot of research into the NAD deficiency aspect of VA toxicity and it is resurfacing on the Facebook page.
In post 67, AlexM states (he is actually addressing you), "PUFA is a major factor for depleting NAD levels in our body and NAD is the cofactor for ALDH, so the saturated fat from the coconut oil should help cancel out the bad PUFA effects"
Alex also makes this comment on the Facebook page, "PUFA is the biggest destroyer of NAD levels", "While saturated fat produces high NAD levels"
I do not know what his backup support is for this, (nor have I looked for any information about this) other than he often refers to reading and experimenting with the Ray Peat ideology.
Just an FYI about fish oils, since that is what Huberman is suggesting. Brian Peskin's take on EFA/DHA is that we are overdosed on the fish oils (and most are rancid as they are easily oxidized). If we give the body what it needs (the parent ALA), it should supply the derivatives (EPA/DHA) in the amount that the body requires. As I have mentioned in previous post, some have an impaired D6D pathway and have problems converting, thus needing to supply derivatives directly.
@pattycake thanks for this. Yes, saturated fat has not turned out to be the answer to my remaining VA sensitivity as I had hoped and expressed in that thread - though adding in refined coconut oil has helped me in other ways. Like you, I also went very low fat, and it hurt me. The coconut oil has helped, but I have suspected for a few months now that I am probably deficient in specific fatty acids that are not found in coconut oil. Fat from grass fed beef gives me a level of calmness and feeling of physical strength that I don't get from the coconut oil, until the carotenoids catch up with me a few days in and I have to stop it. Your posts have been very well-timed, as I recently developed a dry scaly rash and heart palpitations. So thank you for posting here.
On the subject of ALA conversion to EPA/DHA - what are your thoughts on the supposed conversion rates of somewhere in the single digits to 20s? Do you think that's inaccurate? Or if it's accurate, might it be a good thing that it's so low?
@jessica2
EFA derivatives DHA, EPA, CLA or GLA: again, not needed if getting the parent. Body will convert as needed.
Peskin has a supplement (patented medical food) to address delta 6 impairment. He ues EPO and Algal oil.
https://store.goodforhealth.org/good-for-health-eztrek/eztrektm-medical-food.html
Peskin agrees, we do not need much omega 3. He has a retracted article, "Why Fish Oil Fails: A Comprehensive 21st Century Lipids-Based Physiologic Analysis" It's informative.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3914521/
I use the Flora brand, the mixed oil with EPO. I trust that they do what is necessary to keep their oils "fresh." Apparently, the encapsulation process uses heat, thus greater oxidation. That being said, Barlean's was one of the few I could find that has organic EPO (in capsule)
https://www.florahealth.com/collections/plant-based-omegas
I am amazed that you are able to notice the calm and physical strength from beef fat. Sounds like you are in tune with your body. That's really cool. Sorry, I have no idea how many carotenoids are in the oils, mine are definitely yellow. But, the hope is that they act as an emulsifier, the so-called "rescue agent". Out of curiosity, what sort of symptoms do you get after a few days of beef fat, if you do not mind sharing? As Far as conversion to EPA/DHA, Peskin says around 5% if I recall correctly. Yeah, apparently we need the parent LA/ALA much more so than the derivatives.
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Deleted, I missed the comment about it being retraced 🤦♀️
@jessica2 so you are thinking that you are not getting GLA since the second step is broken/degraded: LA->GLA?
I have always had extreme dry skin(worse in winter months), that is extremely oily it's a weird combo. Curious to hear your supplementation results.
Wondering now if GLA is something I need to experiment with, being accutane was used in past...