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Anyone cured yet?
I also want to say I count Grant's story as a cure, no matter what further tests show or where his health ends up. He was still better off in this path and that is obvious. I hope he doesn't feel that he has to continue to prove anything. The idea is now out there and that is what was needed.
Quote from salt on July 21, 2019, 5:39 amI just feel like, if someone who previously couldnt tolerate some VA but now can, that would be good evidence that we are really talking about a poisoning. Whereas if nobody ever becomes able to eat normal levels of VA it sounds more like this is about a dysfunction in VA metabolism. And I haven't seen a single testimony of anyone tolerating moderate levels of VA again. It has been a couple of years now
Hi Salt,
There are several people who have started to add back vitamin A items into their diets (eggs, cheese), and still seem to be doing OK. So, they are now only on a low vA diet, not a zero vA diet.
But, I'm sure there are multiple factors at play here. It is not just the build-up into a toxic state of vA. It is also a depletion of the resources and enzymes needed to detoxify from it. So, I don't think it is a dysfunction, rather it's that the detoxification process has been exhausted and overwhelmed.
Grant
Quote from ggenereux on July 21, 2019, 8:57 amQuote from salt on July 21, 2019, 5:39 amI just feel like, if someone who previously couldnt tolerate some VA but now can, that would be good evidence that we are really talking about a poisoning. Whereas if nobody ever becomes able to eat normal levels of VA it sounds more like this is about a dysfunction in VA metabolism. And I haven't seen a single testimony of anyone tolerating moderate levels of VA again. It has been a couple of years now
Hi Salt,
There are several people who have started to add back vitamin A items into their diets (eggs, cheese), and still seem to be doing OK. So, they are now only on a low vA diet, not a zero vA diet.
But, I'm sure there are multiple factors at play here. It is not just the build-up into a toxic state of vA. It is also a depletion of the resources and enzymes needed to detoxify from it. So, I don't think it is a dysfunction, rather it's that the detoxification process has been exhausted and overwhelmed.
Grant
That's very cool. Do you think it's possible that you or they could publish their stories somewhere?
Hey,
Just wanted to add that I've been doing pretty well since adding some Vitamin A foods. Most of the benefits still have remained, while none of the severe negatives have returned. Most importantly, I suffer zero back, muscle or joint pain. My posture is effortlessly straight, when before I had a noticeable hunchback. Most of my mental issues are gone. My eyes remain clear and healthy looking, despite a "deficient diet." My eyesight has improved slightly, going from -2.75 to -2.25. I started working at a desk job and I'm largely sedentary during the day, but I remain flexible. I exercise twice a month, and my fitness level remains the same.
Vitamin A foods like green vegetables, dairy, eggs, and fruit are very stimulating and strong tasting now, making it very easy to regulate consumption of these foods. I have some milk, cheese, eggs, and green vegetables, but in very modest portions, and only as an accompaniment to a meal based on starch and protein. If I do indulge in high Vitamin A foods, I typically consume a simpler diet for a few days and the symptoms reduce again.
My appetite has become very modest, and I don't really have intense hunger or thirst unless I am very active. I only eat about 3-4 oz of meat most days, as I find anymore than that to be far too much. My diet is based around wheat, rice, legumes, and potatoes, along with some other additions as available. Most of the week I eat 1500-200o calories a day. I typically eat more on the weekends(3-4k a day), but my weight has been remaining the same, and my body composition is lean and healthy looking.
You have to take into account how long it can take to bring elevated liver VA levels down to normal as well. VA is eliminated at a rate of around 0.5% of current stores per day. There are documented cases where people who consumed around 40 000 - 50 000 IU/day for several years end up with liver VA values 20-fold higher than normal. These amounts are not that difficult to reach even with just a diet rich in high-VA foods such as a WAPF diet. If you're such a person it could take you almost 2 years just to bring your liver VA levels down to normal, might take even longer if you've been doing really high dose supplements or Accutane treatment.
So I think you will see symptoms of VA toxicity gradually disappear as you bring down your stores, but this hypersensitivity to ingested VA could remain for at least as long as you still have more VA stored than your liver is comfortable with, as its still going to remain predominantly in the "release and detox mode" whereby any ingested VA will be poorly handled since your body is still focused on getting rid of VA rather than storing it.
I've noticed that when I eat substantial amounts of VA now, I first get a sharp increase in symptoms for some hours followed by a equally noticeable decrease in symptoms and inflammation for some hours afterwards. I'm guessing this biphasic response is due to ingested VA causing a rise in circulating levels which then provokes a physiological response to shift the body into VA storage mode which results in circulating VA levels becoming relatively depressed for some time until the body shifts back into releasing stored VA.
Collden, that was a great post! It really explained things clearly.
Quote from Arena on December 26, 2020, 1:40 pmQuote from YH on July 21, 2019, 12:30 pmHey,
Just wanted to add that I've been doing pretty well since adding some Vitamin A foods. Most of the benefits still have remained, while none of the severe negatives have returned. Most importantly, I suffer zero back, muscle or joint pain. My posture is effortlessly straight, when before I had a noticeable hunchback. Most of my mental issues are gone. My eyes remain clear and healthy looking, despite a "deficient diet." My eyesight has improved slightly, going from -2.75 to -2.25. I started working at a desk job and I'm largely sedentary during the day, but I remain flexible. I exercise twice a month, and my fitness level remains the same.
Vitamin A foods like green vegetables, dairy, eggs, and fruit are very stimulating and strong tasting now, making it very easy to regulate consumption of these foods. I have some milk, cheese, eggs, and green vegetables, but in very modest portions, and only as an accompaniment to a meal based on starch and protein. If I do indulge in high Vitamin A foods, I typically consume a simpler diet for a few days and the symptoms reduce again.
My appetite has become very modest, and I don't really have intense hunger or thirst unless I am very active. I only eat about 3-4 oz of meat most days, as I find anymore than that to be far too much. My diet is based around wheat, rice, legumes, and potatoes, along with some other additions as available. Most of the week I eat 1500-200o calories a day. I typically eat more on the weekends(3-4k a day), but my weight has been remaining the same, and my body composition is lean and healthy looking.
@yh you still doing OK?
Hey,,
I’m doing great.
Most of the benefits still remained. I did have some episodes of anxiety, but lowering caffeine, eating less meat, and focusing on “light” vegetables helped balance things out. Also water! As my body got healthier, my desire for water increased dramatically.
I’ve been getting a lot more social over the last year. I make an effort to eat my meals with family or friends. I think this has been the most beneficial aspect. It’s weird, I’m sitting here drinking water, and i honestly have to really think to remember what I had for dinner at my sisters place. I am no longer thinking about food. I don’t have to have a morning coffee or a special meal to get going. I longer care to fill my stomach or taste food—my mind is no longer preoccupied with food. I do still eat about 2-3k calories a day.
Here is the thing—If I start eating spaghetti with red sauce, tons of cheese, too much dairy products, or too much fruit/vegetables—I start becoming preoccupied with food. I no longer find these foods appealing. Even pizza is not interesting anymore.
pizza is not interesting? :0
Quote from lil chick on March 10, 2021, 5:25 ampizza is not interesting? :0
I get that same feeling. If I go back to eating anything, I will crave those SAD foods, but if I avoid gluten, limit dairy and avoid colorful fruits/veggies. I just start to not care too much about the taste of my food and just seek that nourished feeling.
