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ascites, the swelling around the liver
I watched the video below that talked about end stage liver disease in hospice. First she talks about the yellowing of the whites of the eyes, and that is something I've seen reverse in my time here at this forum. One of the most interesting things to me was the symptom of ascites.
I've mentioned that my husband hasn't lost weight here on the slow boat, and I was thinking how some of his excess weight might actually be ascites.
I wonder what the body is trying to do with this swelling and I wonder if draining it is good or bad for the person in the long run. She seemed to say it was just malfunctioning of the portals. I suppose if you are on hospice there is no long run and draining the extra fluid makes you more comfortable, so that makes sense.
There is also swelling that accompanies low thyroid, known as myxedema. I wonder if it is similar. Perhaps also a malfunctioning of veins.
So not all extra weigh is fat, and that is something to think about. You'd really have to fix some serious things at a very basic level for the symptom to go away.
My old naturopath used to say it's much easier to stay well than to get well once ill, and this a very good example.
I have a diabetic friend who rides bikes professionally. There are teams that are entirely type 1, or entirely type 2. These teams train a lot. Once at a race I noticed the type-2 riders still have "beer guts" even though they train. I wonder if it's swelling and not fat.
I suppose this is good example of calories in/calories out doesn't explain your weight... or your shape...
In the olden days if you look at why this or that famous person died, swelling is often given as a reason. (they had different words for it, just as we do)
getting over damage from excess vit A and copper now. At worst, lost 5% body weight while edema from knees down more than doubled size of legs and feet. just getting feet and ankles back now. requires potassium magnesium charcoal hot water soaks. and plenty of sun / uvb / red near infrared light. and Garrett's advice on supplements and diet. reduced vit A copper intake since 12/2022. increased vit A copper excretion since 1/2023. kidney stones / gravel / sand stopped coming out 4/2023. kidneys working better every day. so is colon.
near as I can tell, edema in legs is function of lymph flow and kidney function reduced. saw similar symptom changes in sister during her hospice for cancer. legs first then up into her abdomen. horrific and painful. feels, looks and sounds like liver function gets hurt which in turn hurts kidney function which in turn hurts lymphatic function = worsening days.
@joe this edema happened to me in first year of my ‘detox’. Retrospectively I suspect accumulated retinaldehyde and an induced B1 deficiency. I don’t have labs to prove this is what happened, but it’s a suspicion. I suspect the retinaldehyde form as I was using high dose vC which is now known to slow ALDH directly and indirectly. However, it could have been trapped retinoic acid. I certainly suspect a block in vA metabolism/catabolism and induced deficiency. Agree that it’s lymph related.
Jenny, suggest you work with Garrett Smith. He has helped me much.
Reading on B1 got me going on solgar's 500mg tablet. Smith's recommended reading indicates more than a hard to overdose on B1. Everyone is different so start slow and ramp up. Also need to look for what else is lacking. Potassium was the hardest deficiency for me to fill in. Seemed tough on my gut to supplement. Transdermal works best so far and works well. Hence the foot soaks. Use it in our dish water too.
Probably my first worst most pressing issue was sleep deprivation due to sacroiliitis pain typical in hypervitaminosis A. At worst sleep was limited to 10 minute naps. That lasted a month before Garrett helped me get to 1.5 hr to 3 hr naps. Needed a few transitions to reach that milestone. Those naps lasted 4 months. It took bringing in minerals that tested low, bringing up fiber and charcoal intake levels slowly and bringing in fruit and oatmeal after 12 years of keto / paleo.
Once sacroiliitis calmed down, the lower leg / ankle / foot edema pain became limiting factor. Near as I could tell, it was lymph edema. Not surprising given that I had stood leaning onto a countertop 18 hours plus per day for 4 months. Kidneys slow down with that kind of sleep deprivation. Pain in legs and sacroiliac limited sleep as well as movement. Lack of movement slows the lymph down.
What seemed to put me over the top on sleep past 1.5 hr naps was melatonin. Ran across its anti-inflammatory traits in reading in 2020. Read more since and found that it is about as safe to take as B1. So again, with advise from Dr Smith, I started slow and increased to a level I found made a difference. Started sleeping 3 plus hours at a stretch. Big difference over all and especially in edema. Quickly I got to 6 plus hours sleeps. 7 months into this recovery, my best sleep is 10.5 hours. Slept soundly and guts worked beautifully. So I am improving fast now and continue to improve.
Somewhere in there too, I started in on UVB lamp, red /near infrared lamp and a rebounder trampoline. These all make me feel incrementally better consistently. Hope your recovery goes as well as this one is so far. Best of luck.
not sure why the link did not load
here it is broken up so you can cut and paste as needed.
com/gp/product/B000Z90BR8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
@joe "Jenny, suggest you work with Garrett Smith. " Jenny was the one who helped Dr Smith set up the Love your Liver programme over 4 years ago. Jenny had a choline deficiency that Dr Smith failed to identify. Jenny asked Dr Smith about it and he put her off eating eggs. Her ALT liver enzyme was sky high and that is one sign of choline deficiency. A few people I know have now demonstrated this by eating eggs and reducing the ALT enzyme including Jenny. Although it could have other causes but other evidence tends to corroborate it.
Over 2 years ago Jenny was also the one who suggested to Dr Smith that B vitamins are helpful as co factors in enzyme reactions and that the detox likely increases our need for B vitamins. Again, Dr Smith criticised Jenny for mentioning this in an email and in the Vitamin A toxicity group. 2 years later Dr Smith has now slightly changed his tune on B vitamins in line with what Jenny suggested. I believe he's now recommending folinic acid.
Jenny has had 3 seizures and at least part of the blame lies with Dr Smith for not recognising her need for more choline. So recommending she works with Dr Smith is highly insensitive. Dr Smith is an amateur nutritionist compared to Jenny Jones. Your continuing promotion of Dr Smith in this group sticks in my throat. I'm sure it's triggering to others in this group harmed by Dr Smith.
Yes indeed, my liver enzymes rose precipitously on the VA reduction diet during which I mostly consumed beans, rice, and meat and kept low fat. When I added back eggs and a more varied diet, liver enzymes fell, to a level even lower than my baseline level before the VA reduction diet. Perhaps the cessation of high VA foods/cod liver oil and the choline from eggs made the liver markers better, that is my hypothesis.
@tommy Mostly ground beef drained probably half a pound to a pound a day, I did eat steaks and roasts occasionally. I would eat chicken too, all parts but Probably white meat mostly. I don't record exact amounts But I didn't hold back and I ate to satiety.
Quote from Jessica2 on June 8, 2023, 5:42 am@tommy Mostly ground beef drained probably half a pound to a pound a day, I did eat steaks and roasts occasionally. I would eat chicken too, all parts but Probably white meat mostly. I don't record exact amounts But I didn't hold back and I ate to satiety.
Sounds like you had an adequate amount of fat, I wonder what went wrong.