Quote from mosaic on December 20, 2024, 11:05 am

Quote from Hermes on December 16, 2024, 12:09 pm

Hi @mosaic,

You've convinced me how important B12 is, especially since we're on a low vitamin A diet here, it seems B12 is another critical vitamin in the detoxification pathway. And since oral (and topical) application seems questionable, injections are necessary. Got all that. Now, I'm willing to play guinea pig here and try injections, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I've found a pharmacy in Lörrach (Germany) that ships vitamin B12 to Switzerland (https://www.bio-apo.com/product/vitamin-b12-depot-inj-1500-g-injektionsloesung.328690.html). No prescription needed. What syringes and other additional tools will I need? I'm thinking swabs and disinfectant and so on. I don't think insulin syringes are the way to go when it's usually applied subcutaneously and vitamin 12 is injected into the muscle. But maybe I'm missing something here. Also, how long does the needle need to be to reach all the liquid in the vial? And then there are questions about how to actually work with syringes so I don't get an abscess.

It's those details that escape me.And I want to get them right. Could you talk about these topics? Or point me in the right direction? That might have helped you when you were learning all these practical things.

Insulin needles only work if you do not have fat on your thigh muscles.

You don't need disinfectant - see https://reddit.com/r/B12_Deficiency/comments/1ghtfd2/studies_and_official_guidelines_on_disinfection/

What you need is:

• Hydroxocobalamin Ampoules, Pascoe is a good choice. Here it's cheaper: https://www.apohealth.de/
• Syringes, like Braun Injekt 2ml (https://www.apohealth.de/products/braun-inj-spr-luerk-zent-100x2-ml-sri)
• Needles, I use 1.2 cm, others need to use 2 or 3 cm to reach the muscle (https://www.apohealth.de/a/search?q=Sterican+Kan%C3%BClen)
• Drawing needles to filter out glass particles while drawing the liquid (https://www.apohealth.de/products/bd-aufziehkanule-m-filter-18g-1-12-12x40mm-100-st-kan)
• Ampoule breaker, makes opening the ampoules way more convenient and prevents most glass particles (http://www.ampullenoeffner.de/, https://www.apohealth.de/products/ampullenoffner-fur-1ml-brechampullen-1-st)

That's it.

Instructions for IM injection into thigh muscle are available on YT.

Quote from Hermes on December 22, 2024, 7:06 am

@mosaic

This is an exceptionally useful post. Thank you.

What's the rationale behind injecting into the muscle vs. body fat, like the belly?

This is an exceptionally useful post. Thank you.

What's the rationale behind injecting into the muscle vs. body fat, like the belly?

Quote from Donald on December 23, 2024, 12:05 pm

Are the glass particles really so much of an issue? I have injected b12 from age 16 to 28 twice a week. Always did a larger needle for sucking it up and a smaller diameter needle for injecting. Never felt any glass enter my leg (probably). And if it's in there it's stuck forever now lol.

The injections helped me immensely by the way. Had chronic fatigue issues. I'll probably order a few more. I haven't felt the need for an injection in a long time, I haven't injected in a year or two probably. But I could always feel when I needed one. I'd get agitated, and cranky. Those issues stopped after the reuteri yogurt and doing liver flushes.

Quote from mosaic on December 23, 2024, 3:01 pm

Since B12 is water-soluble, injecting into the belly fat leads to a very slow absorption over several days. IM leads to a quick rise in blood level.

Regarding the glass particles, here's a good paper on the topic: https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:981f2967-15ba-4a6b-8850-d49b290cb073/files/m50dcc2a963edb62e346fd8cace39811a

The evidence is clear that particles up to 150 micron can enter the body when not using 5 micron filters. It is unclear whether the presence of those small particles (that can not be seen with the naked eye or felt in any way) leads to health issues.

Filter needles are a bit more expensive than normal drawing needles.

Quote from Sarabeth on March 18, 2025, 6:28 pm

This is so fascinating, and as usual I can barely read  enough lately but I absolutely resonate with this hypothesis about b12. 🙂 I have all the risk factors: lifetime/30-year-vegetarian status, birthed and nursed 2 kids while vegetarian, zinc deficient, likely vitamin A toxic with very high vegetable intake and even higher vitamin A/beta carotene intake after beginning GAPS at age 30...and most telling, all six of my kids have midline defects, some have had significant eating disorders, and my sixth baby (born last year) had severe "failure to thrive" that gradually reversed ONLY after I finally realized she was severely b12 deficient (despite my having supplementing it myself orally for my entire pregnancy - the only supplement I took!), and only because I microdosed her orally because I couldn't find any doctor who could help. I am sure I am still b12 deficient, because my bloodwork showed still-low levels last year and I've tried sublingual b12 for literally years without much effect.

Except I think the shots are now illegal in the US? I'd be curious to hear if there's any way to get them, and what about the downsides of supplementing a single nutrient? And what about potassium??

Incidentally, I experienced intense acne/headaches/sickness/etc. for the first couple months of low A (true detox symptoms!), followed by an improvement in my health and digestion overall. My fifth baby, conceived during this first six months, has been my healthiest overall, although still tongue-tied. I supplemented with B1 but not B12 at the beginning of our Low A Experiments. I have wondered if my overall B metabolism has been stressed by vitamin A toxicity in general, and detox specifically, and I wonder if recovery is possible? I dunno, cuz I'm 45 and also have a LOT of stress in my life right now, but...one can always be optimistic, right?

Quote from Tanveen on May 15, 2025, 12:33 pm

I had a severe reaction to the Covid vaccine and I found that b12 injections (not b12 vitamins) helped my symptoms. I got the idea after reading this article and noticed the difference after 6 injections (loading dose) before I knew about vitamin a toxicity 

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/my-long-covid-nightmare-and-how-i-overcame-it-cambridge-pat-9277995/

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/long-covid-sufferer-who-considered-20893053

 

 

 

 

 

Quote from lil chick on May 16, 2025, 9:33 am

https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/b12-autoimmunity-stomach-lining-broken-guts/

B12 is so very important, the video in the original post of this thread   ^^.  is so illuminating.

They used to give out the b12 shots like candy to older people, now they don't.

Quote from Tanveen on May 18, 2025, 11:37 am

I tried other forms of b12 (liposomal, patches) but they were just not as good as the b12 injections.  

Quote from Hermes on May 19, 2025, 12:37 pm

I dont know what to think anymore with this journey and how to find the way out to steady progress.

@itsme

 

Oh, I know this sentiment all too well. For some reason, about 50% of people who start a low vitamin A regimen initially get worse instead of better. I don't know how long this lasts initially. I've been doing this for six years and am still waiting for profound changes. So far, it's been more of a downward slope. I may also have become a heretic since I eat at least two eggs a day. Going all in on a low-vitamin-A diet hasn't been fruitful for me. For the past two months, I've also been following the HG7 protocol, which you can find more information about on lowtoxinforum.com. Maybe this will help me improve my health. I'll keep at it; what else can I do? But it's so frustrating when you feel like you're falling apart instead of building up. And we're all getting older while doing this. Sigh.

I dont know what to think anymore with this journey and how to find the way out to steady progress.