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Carnivore and Bile Acid Malabsorption
@nina Very simply - I name a feeling, just the word (which has a particular frequency), not the feeling itself, and ask whether this feeling is blocked in me. Then I get a yes or no reaction. If it's a yes, meaning the circuit closes (which I feel in my body), I focus on that until the circuit opens, which means the blockage is dissolved and energy is flowing freely away again at that particular frequency and is no longer stuck in the body. It's not necessary to feel the actual emotion, just the energetic blockage that creates it.
It doesn't have to be a feeling. It can be a belief. Or maybe something that bothers you. That it bothers you is an indication that there's a blockage. If I focus on it it will dissolve and the thing that bothered me before no longer does.
@christian For me it's not the same. I can sit all day and meditate and pay attention to whatever pops up and nothing will change. It's all still there at the end of the day. Or I focus on something, feel the energy either flow or being stuck in my body, focus on that sensation in relation to the thing that my mind is focused on, and feel the blockage dissolve by feeling the energy flow in my body change. So I'd say it's not just a mental focussing but the combined focus on the mental and physical or rather energetic aspect that makes the difference. I haven't really thought about it, to be honest. It's like looking for water veins. I just think of water as I walk over the ground and when there's a water vein underneath I feel the circuit close in my body.
As for the world we experience - each of us live in their own universe. There are no other people. There's not even an "I" in relationship to anything else because in reality all is one and to define one thing you need something that is not that thing but somethign else. Know what I mean? I am this but not that. That's duality, which is an illusion. That's why "God" cannot be described or explained, only experienced.
Each of us experiences a universe based on the particular frequency that our consciousness vibrates at, with everything in it vibrating in relationship to that particular frequency. If one thing is changed, all things change. Like a hologram. The universe is holographic in nature, but that too is an illusion. It's all mind games that we play with outself for fun. If I change a belief then the whole world changes accordingly to match the new belief. That's because we create the whole world in our mind. There's only mind. Physical reality is an illusion. Ultimately we don't even create the world because there is no world, it only feels that way. At best we could say that we seem to experience being a person that creates a world, but everything has already happened and we only review all of it again and again from every possible angle, which creates multiverses upon multiverses forever and ever. Wrap your mind around that. For most people it's impossible because in their case consciousness is too focused on being human to fully realize that in fact we are all God.
Quote from Janelle525 on November 8, 2022, 7:14 amI wouldn't have been convinced about the bile acid thing until I heard Karen Hurd's story. Being poisoned by a pesticide is pretty serious and the rapid improvement when she began giving fiber couldn't have just been coincidence.
I've been doing more of the Dr Lawrence Wilson development program than anything else lately. It includes lots and lots of root veggies, crucifers, and onions. Yes I questioned whether I should be eating beta carotene or other so called 'plant toxins', but my cholesterol numbers were just getting worse and worse ever since I stopped eating veggies and beans back 10 yrs ago. So it's worth a try! Grant also wasn't only eliminating vitamin A he was also eating fiber in the form of beans. The rapid improvement in his health could be attributed to the fiber alone.
Can I ask what veg you are eating on the Wilson diet, I was following it in July and it was the best I've ever felt, autistic symptoms completely gone, ADD gone, gallbladder issues better , very high vitality and motivation, I felt amazing in the sun, if there was I could get back on it I would, but I was eating around 8 carrots a day with butternut squash some days, my skin was turning orange and I couldn't tolerate fructose anymore without getting diabetic neuropathy.
I took TUDCA and Nattokinase one day with one of the very high beta carotene meals and my stomach was severely inflamed and I felt terrible for days.
So I went Low VA and followed the advice people gave me of cutting out high VA foods like carrots and squash, well this was a massive mistake as I had only been eating squash, celery, carrots, daikon, rutagaba with meat and some nut butter for a month and this organic sourdough bread for the last week of that month. So cutting out the carrots and squash caused my body to convert all the carotenoids into harmful VA compounds that damaged me badly, and because I started eating large amounts of this organic sourdough bread (which I now know was high in glyphosate, aldehydes and possibly mold all of which slow down ALDH) I wasn't able to slowly reduce the carotenoid foods as I now reacted badly to them too. The sourdough bread also made the symptoms from the VA being converted/released a million times worse but it took me a week or two to work that out.
Anyway a month and a half later I tried getting back on the Wilson diet after running into iron overload and diabetes issues from low VA, but now carrots and rutagaba cause me confusion, pancreas pain and orange yellow hands, then stuff like onions and other veg cause heavy nose running. Carrots now also cause me rapid weight loss and pale stools, but when I was first on the diet for a month in July I had normal coloured stools. While before I felt calm and motivated and had refreshing sleep when I had carrots, now when I eat them I get the complete opposite reaction like a huge norepinephrine/adrenaline dump which causes autistic symptoms and anxiety, I do wonder if its to do with ceruloplasmin activating copper.
It seems I can't tolerate antioxidants anymore, as well as sulfur and high carotenoid veg. Basically anything that slows down ALDH causes me big issues now.
I'm annoyed and concerned about not tolerating sulfur and antioxidant veg anymore that indicates my liver has been shut down and I'm stuck with this crappy diet of beans, meat, some fruit, nut butter, oats where I function nothing like I did on the wilson diet.
When one follows a diet like Wilsons they will realise eating lots of well cooked veg is the key to having best health and remineralising the body and that things like fruit are not helpful. I also didn't know how important veg was until I tried pressure cooking it like Wilson advises, raw veg is useless as vegetable fibers are too tough for humans to break down and obtain the minerals and nutrients. Having TMG with the big variety of Veg also made me feel amazing when the diet was working for me.
Now from going low VA I've built up too much glyphosate in my system from the diet part even though I was eating organic, and I guess too much VA has been released and done damage for me to tolerate that stuff anymore. When I'm reading on here about people not being able to tolerate onions after 3 or 8 years of being low VA that concerns me a lot. If ones liver is functioning correctly they should be able to tolerate these things.
I think if I had done saunas, coffee enemas, used tmg and avoided the organic sourdough bread when I first tried the Wilson diet then I don't think I would have ran into these issues.
Quote from AlexM on November 28, 2022, 7:49 pmQuote from Janelle525 on November 8, 2022, 7:14 amI wouldn't have been convinced about the bile acid thing until I heard Karen Hurd's story. Being poisoned by a pesticide is pretty serious and the rapid improvement when she began giving fiber couldn't have just been coincidence.
I've been doing more of the Dr Lawrence Wilson development program than anything else lately. It includes lots and lots of root veggies, crucifers, and onions. Yes I questioned whether I should be eating beta carotene or other so called 'plant toxins', but my cholesterol numbers were just getting worse and worse ever since I stopped eating veggies and beans back 10 yrs ago. So it's worth a try! Grant also wasn't only eliminating vitamin A he was also eating fiber in the form of beans. The rapid improvement in his health could be attributed to the fiber alone.
Can I ask what veg you are eating on the Wilson diet, I was following it in July and it was the best I've ever felt, autistic symptoms completely gone, ADD gone, gallbladder issues better , very high vitality and motivation, I felt amazing in the sun, if there was I could get back on it I would, but I was eating around 8 carrots a day with butternut squash some days, my skin was turning orange and I couldn't tolerate fructose anymore without getting diabetic neuropathy.
I took TUDCA and Nattokinase one day with one of the very high beta carotene meals and my stomach was severely inflamed and I felt terrible for days.
So I went Low VA and followed the advice people gave me of cutting out high VA foods like carrots and squash, well this was a massive mistake as I had only been eating squash, celery, carrots, daikon, rutagaba with meat and some nut butter for a month and this organic sourdough bread for the last week of that month. So cutting out the carrots and squash caused my body to convert all the carotenoids into harmful VA compounds that damaged me badly, and because I started eating large amounts of this organic sourdough bread (which I now know was high in glyphosate, aldehydes and possibly mold all of which slow down ALDH) I wasn't able to slowly reduce the carotenoid foods as I now reacted badly to them too. The sourdough bread also made the symptoms from the VA being converted/released a million times worse but it took me a week or two to work that out.
Anyway a month and a half later I tried getting back on the Wilson diet after running into iron overload and diabetes issues from low VA, but now carrots and rutagaba cause me confusion, pancreas pain and orange yellow hands, then stuff like onions and other veg cause heavy nose running. Carrots now also cause me rapid weight loss and pale stools, but when I was first on the diet for a month in July I had normal coloured stools. While before I felt calm and motivated and had refreshing sleep when I had carrots, now when I eat them I get the complete opposite reaction like a huge norepinephrine/adrenaline dump which causes autistic symptoms and anxiety, I do wonder if its to do with ceruloplasmin activating copper.
It seems I can't tolerate antioxidants anymore, as well as sulfur and high carotenoid veg. Basically anything that slows down ALDH causes me big issues now.
I'm annoyed and concerned about not tolerating sulfur and antioxidant veg anymore that indicates my liver has been shut down and I'm stuck with this crappy diet of beans, meat, some fruit, nut butter, oats where I function nothing like I did on the wilson diet.
When one follows a diet like Wilsons they will realise eating lots of well cooked veg is the key to having best health and remineralising the body and that things like fruit are not helpful. I also didn't know how important veg was until I tried pressure cooking it like Wilson advises, raw veg is useless as vegetable fibers are too tough for humans to break down and obtain the minerals and nutrients. Having TMG with the big variety of Veg also made me feel amazing when the diet was working for me.
Now from going low VA I've built up too much glyphosate in my system from the diet part even though I was eating organic, and I guess too much VA has been released and done damage for me to tolerate that stuff anymore. When I'm reading on here about people not being able to tolerate onions after 3 or 8 years of being low VA that concerns me a lot. If ones liver is functioning correctly they should be able to tolerate these things.
I think if I had done saunas, coffee enemas, used tmg and avoided the organic sourdough bread when I first tried the Wilson diet then I don't think I would have ran into these issues.
Did you know about the vitamin A issue when you were doing the Wilson stuff? I feel like your horrible reaction is now a fight or flight reaction from feeling as if the vitamin A is going to hurt you. That's the problem with labelling things as toxic because then we can never eat that thing without thinking it's harming us. The amygdala is recording everything you deem as harmful and then when it encounters that thing it will react within milliseconds to protect you from harm.
I was adding in vegetables slowly so I was only doing half a carrot a day, heavier on the crucifers like purple cabbage and cauliflower. I took a break from it for a while, but I do want to get back into it. I agree that not being able to have onions without feeling you were losing your eyesight is not a good sign (Grant's reaction to onions). I refuse to go on the prison food diet unless absolutely necessary. I think we can try to come up with a Wilson diet that's not so heavy on the beta-carotene. I think the crucifers are important if you want to do the carotenoids, seems to help eliminate stuff.
Hi. How is a low VA diet linked to an iron overload? I got the same issues and not sure what to do...
@everyone
How is this whole VA detox / Iron issue linked to candida? My digestion is still REAL bad. And I am not sure if I caught a parasite from the raw meat I was eating or if all the toxins that are coming out of the liver cause an imbalance in gut bacteria/fungus. Is anyone having a similar experience?
Thanks.
@nina Hey
Generally for other people I don't think a low VA diet is linked to iron overload, I was just saying in my case personally I ran into issues tolerating iron when going low VA.
I think its because my bioavailable copper and ceruloplasmin were running low and I have high ferritin. Foods like oats, oat bran , sourdough bread which contain both iron and phytic acid really made my issues with tolerating iron really bad, so I think the phytic acid which blocks iron absorption may have caused unusable toxic iron to build up in the gut and excess iron drives bacterial virulence so this iron feeds bad bacteria in the gut causing things like SIBO.
Taking copper antagonists like zinc or molybdenum made this issue even worse, even when I tried taking a 2-4mg of zinc. Excess iron in acidic environments can cause blood sugar issues which I was also having.
When I had betacarotene fruit or veg like carrots and oranges I could tolerate high iron foods again like red meat with no issues, fructose and vitamin c increases iron absortion, beta carotene and vitamin A also do the same thing.
In my opinion, people who are high VA also end up high iron. Why that is, I don't know. Perhaps its just the way the course of the thing goes, just like many end up low in B vities.
@nina, I'm sorry you are still having trouble with your gut. I can't help but wonder if Andrew B might be right about choline helping things. I've never given up eggs, Eggs are big here at my house as I grow them myself, and my gut isn't my problem, lucky enough.
I do get lots of gas with legumes and effervescence. Perhaps that is normal though. At least it seems to be normal for me, as I remember this happening back to childhood.
If concerned with too high iron, I would not eat much raw meat. Raw meat easier leads to iron overload, at least in France doctors recommend women with low iron to eat more raw meat to increase their iron....
. I used to eat mostly raw meat but changed it to eat mostly cooked, as my iron got high too.
Quote from Janelle525 on November 29, 2022, 8:33 amDid you know about the vitamin A issue when you were doing the Wilson stuff? I feel like your horrible reaction is now a fight or flight reaction from feeling as if the vitamin A is going to hurt you. That's the problem with labelling things as toxic because then we can never eat that thing without thinking it's harming us. The amygdala is recording everything you deem as harmful and then when it encounters that thing it will react within milliseconds to protect you from harm.
I was adding in vegetables slowly so I was only doing half a carrot a day, heavier on the crucifers like purple cabbage and cauliflower. I took a break from it for a while, but I do want to get back into it. I agree that not being able to have onions without feeling you were losing your eyesight is not a good sign (Grant's reaction to onions). I refuse to go on the prison food diet unless absolutely necessary. I think we can try to come up with a Wilson diet that's not so heavy on the beta-carotene. I think the crucifers are important if you want to do the carotenoids, seems to help eliminate stuff.
No so when I first did the Wilson diet in July I didn't know about VA toxicity until the last week I did it when someone mentioned it to me and I wish I never found out about it because I think cutting out the high VA foods carrots and squash and swapping for foods like sourdough bread and oats , parsnips caused me build up glyphosate toxicity which really did damage my health and my ability to tolerate Vit A. And from going low VA all the huge amount of carotenoids I had been eating that month got converted into retinaldehydes and this was highly damaging to my body.
I will say this though while eating that amount of carrots and squash that month with this particular organic sourdough bread(glyphosate, aldehydes,mold) on the last week of the diet. I did have severe blood sugar and diabetes symptoms when I tried eating chocolate or any fruit and going low VA those issues did resolve. I did also have the terrible reaction when I had TUDCA with high carotenoid meal on the last week I did the Wilsons diet (maybe this was a bile dump of all the VA building up) and it was after then I seemed very reactive to yellow foods and was having symptoms like itching from VA certain supplements and foods, but compared to the extreme symptoms and health issues that I got after going low VA these symptoms I had before these were nothing and overall I did feel amazing on the Wilson diet apart from the issues I mentioned above. I also felt great in the sun and that must be because beta carotene gives you protection from the sun, my skin was also orange from the beta carotene and yellow at times.
Believe me I've tried a lot of times (since going low VA) to eat high carotenoid foods again and other veg and every time its backfired and also tried restarting the Wilson diet but it went wrong after some days. It's definitely not a flight or fight reaction but I wish it was, when I first went low VA I remember the carrots actually gave me relief at times from the detox symptoms I was getting but now as time as has gone on, I am getting bad confusion, peeling gums on roof of mouth, running nose, rapid weight loss, pale stools, orange hands, yellow pale thin unhealthy face whenever I eat carrots or rutagaba/swede.
Even the low carotenoid veg like celeriac and parsnips can give me this peeling and bleeding gums on the roof of my mouth while eating them, so it seems like that is from the antioxidants they contain.
I don't like the idea at all I have to avoid one nutrient now it doesn't sound right to me especially when it's in so many foods, I'm trying to find a way to get back to where I was before. Daily coffee and water Enemas , MCP (binder) seem to be helping a lot. Since having MCP pectasol I'm having smelly yellow diarrhoea and it seems like I'm properly getting rid of VA and aldehydes now when before it seemed like I wasn't as much.
just wanted to give a quick update on my BAM situation for those that might be interested. Been doing strict carnivore for nearly 4 years now and the whole time i have been eating a lot of salt. Mostly just a continuation from when i was doing a more standard keto diet. I would liberally salt my food and add salt to my water throughout the day. Well over the last couple weeks I have massively reduced my salt intake to just a small sprinkling on my food, and all my digestive symptoms have gone. no more evening nausea and no more diarrhea. stomach seems more settled after meals as well. I still think there is something to the Vit A reduction as my dry skin and keratosis pillaris has improved but i think all my digestive issues and previous described in this thread were due to the sodium.
@nina and @wavygravygadzooks, have either of you experimented with your salt intake? i know magnesium was problematic for you.
As you probably know, like fat to protein ratios, salt is one of the more contentious topics in the carnivore world. But the more I look into it i think after transition there is no real need to high sodium intake on a carnivore diet like there seems to be on a plant inclusive ketogenic diet. potassium is lower on carnivore, there is plenty of sodium in meat, our ancestors did not consume a lot of sodium or seek it out like herbivorous do, and we know from Stefansson's accounts of his time with the Inuit that they did not use salt for example.
Thanks for the update! I have indeed played around with salt. Early on in my carnivore/low vA diet, I was salting my meat quite liberally as well. At times I would try adding salt to my water. I was primarily trying to resolve electrolyte issues, but the liberal salt intake didn't seem to do anything for it (nor did magnesium, potassium, or calcium supplementation). At one point over a year ago I did try cutting way back on salt, and I don't recall noticing any major changes in symptoms.
I've recently been experimenting with it again. I started adding between 1/16 and 1/2 teaspoon of sea salt to water in the morning, midafternoon, and night, alongside some potassium and magnesium, but NOT salting any of my food. I can't say I've seen any consistent changes with that, except that avoiding salt at meals seems to help me avoid a strange hypoglycemic-type sensation I sometimes have about 2 or 3 hours after eating meals. I usually don't feel the need for salt unless I'm eating ground beef, which tastes so bland I can hardly stand to eat it without salt...might be because I'm cooking it to recommended temps (160 F) whereas I'm cooking intact cuts of meat to only rare or medium-rare, but I suspect it's actually because there are fewer minerals in the ground and my body just craves certain minerals right now.
I have struggled with some serious hydrogen sulfide gas at night off and on, and I know there is a shred of evidence to suggest that "excessive" salt intake can throw your gut biome out of balance. With that in mind, I've recently gone back to almost complete salt restriction, just 1/16 teaspoon large-grained sea salt in water 2-3 times per day. I don't think that alone has resolved the H2S problem, but I do think added salt (and probably excess magnesium, and possibly potassium) could be contributing to the problem.
I totally agree that added salt is most likely unnecessary on most carnivore diets. It seems like humans have only been seeking out salt since adopting agriculture and plant-based diets. Similar to the muscle meat only debate, the fact that so many people have done carnivore without salt and been just fine is a clear indication that it should not be required by a healthy person eating sufficient quantities of ruminant meat. I'm still curious whether there might be a tiny benefit to some added salt, and whether any detriments are not enough to outweigh the potential benefits. It seems like there is a lot of evidence to suggest that our bodies flush out excess salt pretty easily, but there's got to be a tradeoff...is the tradeoff limited to loss of water, which is easy to correct, or does it involve meaningful losses of potassium and calcium and unwanted shifts to other systems like the gut biome?
Lastly, I should update you on my thoughts with BAM in my own personal history. I still get burning loose stools after 2+ years on a low vA mostly carnivore diet, but I stopped getting bright yellow in my stools almost a year ago now, and I very rarely get explosive watery diarrhea anymore. What seems to cause the burning loose stools these days (which do often leach out an orange liquid, but not yellow) is a fair amount of tallow (lamb and beef). These stools tend to be very light in color and have a really weird waxy appearance that I've described in another thread, with air pockets, although they do not float in the toilet. I seem to tolerate moderate amounts of tallow for days on end without getting these stools, but if I let myself eat as much as I want, I will inevitably wind up with the pale waxy burning stools. I'm still unsure whether the burning is from bile acids or Vitamin A, but if stearic and palmitic acid enable/encourage the storage of retinyl esters in the liver, then maybe excessive amounts of tallow are leading to the deposition of more retinyl esters (the source of retinol being the peripheral tissues) than the liver can get rid of via "normal" glucuronidation processing, which leads to a dumping of bile acids into the colon (and subsequent fat malabsorption) in an effort to avoid potential absorption of Vitamin A from food intake. The problem I have with this idea is that, if it were due to bile acids, I would expect to be getting that bright yellow color and more watery stools like I did early on. Thus, my alternative idea is that large amounts of tallow are actually drawing retinyl esters themselves into the stool. I can't honestly say that I've found any evidence of this described in the literature outside of wax ester production in the livers of certain fishes...it's probably a stretch to think this happens in humans, but who knows...
I am tempted to do an experiment where I eat primarily olive oil and/or avocado oil in place of animal fat to see if I get the same problems. Theoretically, those unsaturated plant fats would not cause retinyl ester deposition, and maybe I wouldn't get burning loose stools from them. I'm guessing that's the case based on recommendations by Garrett Smith and Karen Hurd to avoid animal fat and to eat only unsaturated plant oils...symptom mitigation in the short-term, but begging for problems from oxidation and plant compounds in the long-term (which of course goes unacknowledged by these people).