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Charlatans and Opportunists: The Hidden Exploitation in Vitamin A Toxicity Science
Quote from Andrew B on August 14, 2024, 9:58 amThis thread marks the low point of the forum. Personal accusations and smearing rather than discussion. I am disgusted with this opening comment. Meredith Arthur deserves an apology. Truly appalling. Her friends and colleagues are similarly appalled. If you dont understand what she is saying and have nothing decent to say then keep quiet.
From the man who would be moderator of all vitamin A toxin forums.
Why are you here Andrew? Why are you undermining everything Grant has proven on a daily basis for a decade? Why are you not hosting and taking part in your own blog selling your own theories and criticizing all the poor sods who feel eggs are loaded with a toxin and other nutrients in eggs help increase storage of that toxin in our livers?
Quote from r on August 14, 2024, 10:14 amQuote from Andrew B on August 14, 2024, 9:58 amThis thread marks the low point of the forum. Personal accusations and smearing rather than discussion. I am disgusted with this opening comment. Meredith Arthur deserves an apology. Truly appalling. Her friends and colleagues are similarly appalled. If you dont understand what she is saying and have nothing decent to say then keep quiet.
"have nothing decent to say then keep quiet"
Let me make this clear: This forum values open discussion. If it didn’t, you would’ve been blocked a long time ago. I don't support silencing people, and I never will. Everyone has the right to speak up, and that's exactly what this forum stands for.
Speaking of personal attacks and smearing, I’ve seen your forum where Grant is accused of lying about his health. I was shocked to read a comment from one of your admins suggesting that Grant is faking it by forcing himself to ride miles on a bike every day. And yet, you claim he's intolerant of criticism? Clearly not, since you’re still here.
I simply stated the facts: Meredith Arthur has nothing but a flimsy theory cobbled together from whatever she could scrape off Google Scholar and ScienceDirect. She's spinning a story to sell, plain and simple.
We believe in open discussion—respectfully, of course—and we don’t owe anyone an apology. We’re not going to stay silent just because it might hurt your business. Free speech and expression are more important than your personal profits.
Again well said. And insightful with facts I did not know.
I did not know about @andrew b's comments on other forums. It is more and more curious Andrew that you run a blog on vitamin A toxicity "based on the writings of Grant Genereux" and yet that facebook page is private. Why would you not make that a public forum easy for all to read?
Quote from Andrew B on August 14, 2024, 10:26 am@r-2 You dont speak for this group. The top ten commentators dont agree with Grant that Vitamin A is a poison so dont use the tactic of trying to make me out as saying much out of the mainstream of the group. And that's a private group on Facebook so stop discussing it outside the group. Why dont you do the decent thing and leave ? You clearly dont have it's best interests at heart.
Nobody said Grant was lying or faking it. You're misrepresenting what was said in the group. Again, it shows you dont belong in that group.
You said much worse about Meredith Arthur. The title Charlatans is defamatory. Nobody's making money out of this or selling products. You need to apologise. Another smear about my personal profits. Ridiculous and delusional.
Why do you think j@r-2 cares about speaking for a group? He speaks for himself very well. Why are you intent on censorship of a blog that you are guest on. A guest who has worked hard to undermine this blog while pretending to wise friendly advice and support.
As to your top 10 commentators? Hilarious. Because you have 10 friends backing your bogus nutrition dogma who blast out comments on a blog you think that gives you some authority?
Why are you here Andrew? Why are you not taking your wonderful ideas and your wonderful supporters and starting a blog of your own that helps people and builds a growing clientele with a growing list of testimonials of people who have improved and are improving daily. There are other people doing that. Garrett is one of them. There is a growing list of people doing exactly the same thing on their own blogs with Garrett's help as well.
Curious that Garrett spends no time here defending himself and Grant's work against grifters. I wonder what posts you made on LYL that got you ejected from that blog.
Quote from sand on August 14, 2024, 1:45 pmQuote from Janelle525 on August 14, 2024, 1:26 pmQuote from sand on August 14, 2024, 1:20 pm@r-2 don’t you dare post private facebook group information on this forum! You are a bully! They didn’t really mean what they said. I’m glad Andrew is so tough and is standing up to you!
(Thanks for confirming everything I thought!)I'm confused (and maybe a bit autistic!) are you being sarcastic?
I like both r-2 and people on the spectrum
Dang, now I am more confused (and probably further along the spectrum too).
Quote from Jessica2 on August 14, 2024, 2:15 pm@joe you are unhinged and a bizarre cult follower who has a hero worship bordering on religious devotion to the low vitamin a mentality. You take its tenets on faith and chastize those not wedded religiously and emotionally to it.
Meri and Jenny rarely even post here. They indeed are busy doing their own thing. You are yelling at the wind basically lol.
Funny stuff Jessica. I call out dogma where and when I can. I have argued and still argue with Garrett on every point he brings. I have done so publicly and consistently enough that I have been repeatedly cautioned that he will remove me from his blog. He can remove me at any time. He also knows I am grateful and honest. I also repeatedly acknowledge where he has proven me wrong. Thankfully he has done so on the most horrific problems I faced at the most pivotal times.
That is the difference between a clinician and a researcher doing his work just wanting peace and support. Garrett has a growing list of people like me with contrary perspectives and growing testimonials filled with improvements like Grant's. We all argue are best arguments supporting our latest favorite ideas. We all shoot each others ideas and write cautions about what will come if and when we are wrong. And we are all wrong - sooner or later - some more often than others. And we all improve as we sort out and become less wrong less often.
You are wrong to think that moderate vitamin A intake is a thing and that it is not a toxin. That is your privilege. You are far more wrong to pretend that you are supporting someone or their blog that proves out that retinols are toxins not nutrients. That too is your privilege.
Attacking me for pointing that out is also your privilege. The irony is that your efforts point up your hypocrisy more and more.
So along these lines, how many eggs a day are you recommending we eat today? Are we still advising 5 or 6 a day?
Quote from Jessica2 on August 14, 2024, 2:15 pm@joe you are unhinged and a bizarre cult follower who has a hero worship bordering on religious devotion to the low vitamin a mentality. You take its tenets on faith and chastize those not wedded religiously and emotionally to it.
Meri and Jenny rarely even post here. They indeed are busy doing their own thing. You are yelling at the wind basically lol.
BTW, nice ad hominem as usual.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 14, 2024, 2:21 pm@joe Forgive me, supreme priest of the low vitamin A cult, for my lack of faith! I am but a human with human failings and I do not possess your ability to accept without questioning what my idols tell me! Please advise me how to stop my critical thinking abilities so I might reject the evidence of my own experience and body and believe as zealously as you do!
sarcasm and ad hominem. That is a good look.
Jessica, if you truly believe Grant's and Garrett's theories are wrong, then why have you not moved on to a better blog with better ideas and improved and then come back here to tell us so that we can check out that blog and their ideas?
The evidence our bodies give us can be deceptive. I ate a standard American diet 21 years and thought myself healthy. My first few years of the 14 that I ate high calorie lacto/ovo vegetarian, I improved massively. The following 15 years eating zone 40/30/30 diet I improved massively again. Then I improved massively again when I started my 12 years on paleo/keto with carnivore sprinkled in.
Before each of these transitions I had a problem or I would not have shopped ideas. In each of those transitions I improved so much that others around me noticed and changed their beliefs. Some tried my experiments. Some tried their own. And we all compared notes.
What all us old folk share and learned well is that we are all wrong. All of us all the time. We are all working to find the least wrong theories. We work hard to knock down the logic and ideas behind the theories. We do not dismiss and pretend to believe those theories. We test them. If they work, we try a different approach and test them again. When they do not work we adjust our tests again to find what does work.
So yes. Decades ago, I stopped arguing with my friends on lacto/ovo advocating boards. I still have friends trying to make it work. Their arguments are not worth arguing after the last 40 years presents its evidence. And I stopped arguing with my friends in the zone diet world. I still do recommend their blogs to others who are trying to figure out hormonal influences of diet. And yes I still blog and talk with friends on paleo / keto / carnivore blogs. Sometimes I tell them about retinol / copper / B6 toxicity. Sometimes I give them tips as to why their diet is ripping them up. It took me two years and plenty of mentors before keto clicked for me.
What I find the funniest is when some kid 14 months into keto starts riffing on me about how I know nothing or I would be keto now and who do I think I am to tell him how he just needs to up his sodium intake and his BP will come right up and life will get smoother.
Similar to when I get on a blog dedicated to and proving well that retinols are toxins and the decades of industrial science behind them is all fraud all the way down and someone with a couple years and a couple pubmeds in her belt tells me I am unhinged, know nothing, have a narrow focus and am a dedicated cult follower with no critical thinking skills.
Are you getting an idea here yet youngish lady?
@joe all your posts make me want to take a long bath in Roundup, and @r-2, come on man, you are right about the charlatans (I think), but you are not coming off as cool talking to Jessica like that. It is totally ok on this forum to think vA is essential, and that not so strict diets are the way to go, actually the evidence is pointing in many directions here. What this thread is about is charlatans. Let’s stick to bashing Great Shit and talk about how Andrew will be elected new pope soon.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 14, 2024, 2:56 pmOkay now you can toy around with your word games right? we know that me saying I had covid twice and you saying but your vaccinated meant that I'm a idiot that got vaccinated and got covid twice anyways, that's what the point you wanted to make was. But I didn't get vaccinated so you can shove that one where the sun doesn't shine. We're in an alternative Health Website here and I'm guessing most people are NOT vaccinated.
You would be guessing wrong. Or as wrong as someone else who would guess that most people on a website dedicated to and proving well that retinols are toxic would be avoiding eating retinols.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 14, 2024, 3:06 pm@joe Joe I feel like in real life your unquestioning faith would be a stellar trait for a good friend. Based on your rants, one would think you are best friends with Grant and Garrett. That's admirable in a way
But when it comes to Scientific matters, that just doesn't cut it. At least for me. I take nothing on faith when it comes to nutrition. I find out things for myself. I look at the studies for myself and I find my own studies even. I did the diet it didn't agree with me. I'm not sticking it out for months on end feeling like a sack of crap to prove my faith or loyalty to an idea or person or dogma. Just not going to do it sorry.
How long did you do the diet?
Why are you taking decades old dogma from Rockefeller paid scientists on faith while pretending to be a scientific skeptic?