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Cherry Angioma
Quote from dan on April 19, 2019, 6:10 pmSoy lecithin is orangish yellow, which I found concerning.
"The color of soybean lecithin is due to carotenoids, brown pigments, and occasionally porphyrins. In the water-washing of crude oil xanthophylls are preferentially removed with the gums, and carotene is practically absent in lecithin. Lutein is the principal carotenoid, comprising about three-quarters of the carotenoids in lecithin. "
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02986416"Color of soybean lecithin depends on processing and bleaching conditions. At our laboratory (11), we showed that xanthophylls are preferentially removed with the gums and that carotene remains with the oil. Lutein made up about 75% of the carotenoid pigments in the gums. These carotenoid pigments are largely destroyed by peroxide bleaching, leaving a variable amount of brown color with no characteristic absorption bands. Studies by Zuev et al. 02-14) have' confinned the fonnation of brown-colored substances as well as destruction of carotenoids by heating."
https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/pubag/downloadPDF.xhtml?id=26685&content=PDFThe sunflower lecithin (which may have helped me) was dark brown in color.
I bought some lecithin and it is yellow. Does that mean it has carrotenoids? Would heating it make them go away?
Quote from ggenereux on April 17, 2019, 1:13 pm96
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Hi ZJ,
Here’s my best guess as to what might be going on. Of course, this is mostly theoretical, so please apply your own good judgement to it.
There are studies showing that serum vitamin A levels actually increase when some people adopt a low vitamin A diet. Although that is completely counterintuitive, it is happening.Cherry Angioma
I think that happens because the flow direction into the liver is reversing, and / or the liver is starting to normalize its volume and is dumping more vitamin A into serum and bile. With that, I think it's this additional vitamin A (in the retinyl palmitate form) that is causing some people the serious "detox" reactions.
However, some people appear to handle this detox phase much better than others. It may be due to them having adequate detoxification enzymes (and a thousand other possible factors). I don’t know. Regardless, we need to find a reliable way for most people to avoid or minimize the consequences of the increased serum levels.
In some recent posts here, there’s a reference to a HHS (Health and Human Services) patent on a rescue agent from retinoid toxicity. I think that the listed compounds (sourced from foods) are a good starting point. Additionally, there this paper documenting the effects of lecithin, and that somewhat supports the reported effects of choline in the HHS patent.
The Effects of Soya Lecithin on the Absorption, Utilization and Storage of Vitamin a and Carotene in the white Rat
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/36/3/391/4726328
The data indicate that lecithin enhances both the absorption and utilization of vitamin A and carotene. The choline fraction of the lecithin molecule is not responsible for this effect.
In the context of this study, they state that lecithin enhances the absorption from food. But, if a person is on a very low vitamin A diet, then I don’t see that being a concern. Conversely, I do think that substances such as lecithin are actually what we do need in this phase.
That’s because, ideally, we need to try to capture that newly releasing vitamin A in serum before it can do us more harm by getting into our tissues. Lecithin appears to be doing that in this study. As an extra counter measure, if a person were to take say 1/4 teaspoon of activated charcoal (mixed in water) first thing in the mornings, that might help capture some of the extra vitamin A that is released in bile during the day and help block it from getting reabsorbed too.
Of course, there are the other counter measures discussed here; such as zinc, vitamin C, and safe forms of vitamin E.
I wish I could offer more concrete information.
Grant
What are the "safe" forms of vitamin C?
Very interested to see this post as I became covered in cherry angiomas (well 30-40 appeared seemingly overnight) in 2017 after a very stressful episode when my Mum was in hospital. My GP could offer no explanation other than ‘they happen with age’ even though mine all appeared overnight. In 2018 I discovered I had vitamin A toxicity & also that Garrett Smith calls stress ‘an agitator’ i.e. it increases the dumping of vitamin A. Therefore, I have thought that my cherry angiomas are to do with vitamin A dumping. This seems to fit with the situation described here. Not that this helps get rid of them but I like to understand what is happening!
I have had one or two of these for a long time and also since starting the low vitamin A diet have had several more pop up on my body. I am pretty concerned with it as well.
In this youtube video someone cauterizes them at home with a hot paper clip! hahahaha OMG Actually it looks strangely not that bad. ?
Tiny cappilaries...
I think that my tiny capillaries are affected by my a-toxicity, resulting in rosacea and raynauds and spider veins. (and perhaps my inner ear problems and vascularities in the eyes, etc)
Are the tiny capillaries busting a gasket due to detox? boom?
I know this is an ancient topic, but I recently had a bunch of cherry angiomas show up out of nowhere. They're mostly on my torso, but a couple showed up on my legs, and there are a few on my face, one of which is on my eyelid. I'd had one or two for a long while before this, but I suddenly had maybe 15 tiny pinpricks show up within a couple days. Some of them have grown slightly larger over the past month, but are nowhere near as large or raised above the skin as the ones I'd had before.
The only thing I can connect them to is supplementing thiamine (Benfotiamine and Thiamine HCl). I had been on a low vA diet for at least 6 months before they showed up. I started supplementing small amounts of Benfotiamine several days before the first round of cherry angiomas appeared. I kept supplementing small amounts and then added a B complex for another month or two and didn't really notice too many more angiomas show up after the first round. Then I backed off both the Benfotiamine and the B complex for a short period, and when I reintroduced them more cherry angiomas showed up within a few days!
Could be complete coincidence, of course, but I've wondered if the influx of B vitamins is initiating an oxalate dump, which is suddenly overwhelming my liver as it continues to deal with vA problems. I had oxalate problems before I identified my vA toxicity. It seems like there's a connection between the two toxicities, and it definitely seems like they exacerbate each other via nutrient depletion.
@jiri Have you had any cherry angiomas? I've read that they can be related to copper toxicity and/or deficiency and I'm curious if you've heard about any connection there. In addition to those appearing in random spots (example: I just had a second tiny one appear on the edge of my eyelid), I seem to have more and more very tiny isolated spider veins in various places.
Quote from wavygravygadzooks on July 10, 2021, 4:15 am@jiri Have you had any cherry angiomas? I've read that they can be related to copper toxicity and/or deficiency and I'm curious if you've heard about any connection there. In addition to those appearing in random spots (example: I just had a second tiny one appear on the edge of my eyelid), I seem to have more and more very tiny isolated spider veins in various places.
Yes I have some cherry angiomas. It's estrogen related as well as copper metabolism for sure. Minerals and hormones are related. I highly recommend hair tissue mineral analysis with blood test for ceruloplasmin, copper and ideally hormones as well. That is great combination of info that can tell you a lot.. Also looking back at your life what was your diet, life style etc.. So you can see what can be low or in toxic amount in your body..
I’m now seeing cherry angiomas as toxicity backfiring out the liver into the blood. Copper and bromine seem to be the two toxicities most talked about on the internet but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was vA related. Cherry angiomas are seen as an ageing thing so this would fit with an accumulated toxin or maybe it’s just accumulated liver damage (or both). The toxicities are hypothesised to cause a vC deficiency. This would makes sense to me.
I think toxicity causing deficiency is a major cause of symptoms. Obviously addressing the toxicity (and the liver health) is most important but sometimes addressing the deficiency can help symptoms while the toxicity is being addressed.
My big splurge of cherry angiomas appeared overnight after an extreme stressor (I don’t think I’ve ever been as stressed in my life) and this would fit with a large bile dump. If my liver was cholestastic then much of that bile would have gone back into blood. Toxicity in the blood could have caused a skin problem or toxicity could have caused a deficiency that caused a skin problem. More cherry angiomas appeared after I had covid. Covid causes cholestasis.
This is my current way of viewing things but it’s only a theory. Theories are always developing and changing with new information.
Thanks, I do remember you saying that you had a sudden appearance of angiomas during a very stressful event. I've kept that in the back of my mind while reading about potential underlying mechanisms because yours is one of the only clear stories of sudden appearance that I've heard.
Why do you say that increased stress initiates bile dumping? This is not a connection I've heard about. If anything, it seems like increased stress would slow bile flow and/or toxin excretion as your bodily demands are shifted to prioritize a more immediate (apparent) threat.
For me, the toxicity causing deficiency scenario seems more likely. I don't doubt that some people are dealing with cholestasis, but it seems like that idea is being thrown around a bit too readily as a result of Smith talking about it lately. I don't think I've ever had clear signs of cholestasis, but I have had signs of detoxing really hard (I can see how these could be hard to distinguish though), and it makes more sense that detoxing hard would temporarily deplete some nutrients, like Vitamin C, to the point where it manifests as deficiency symptoms (my gum recession has gotten worse on my version of low VA, and I go through phases when my gums just hurt and feel inflamed even though I don't have gingivitis). I'm wondering if the onycholysis in my fingernails is related to relative Vitamin C deficiency as well.
I've avoided ascorbic acid supplements, in part in fear of generating more oxalates. I've tried eating more low-sugar fruit like strawberries and blueberries occasionally for the Vitamin C...I suppose I'll probably keep including some of those. I've tried tiny amounts of honey for added glucose, but it tastes disgustingly sweet, whereas berries taste delicious and I could probably eat cups of them if I let myself go. I keep mulling over Michelle's experience on her fruit-heavy diet and how that fits with everything.