I needed to disable self-signups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type sign-ups lately. Please contact me directly if you want membership on this forum. Thanks.
Cherry Angioma
Cherry Angiomas are little red bumps on the skin, considered benign, common, and increase with age. I've had several of these for as long as I can remember but after several months of low vitamin a more began to appear. I now have dozens of them and it seems like a new one pops up every day. Very little is known about them but they are formed by angiogenesis and there seems to be a correlation between them and fatty liver. Anyone else have these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_hemangioma
ABSTRACT Background: Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is becoming a significant problem especially through substantial increase in the incidence of obesity worldwide. Currently it is the most common cause of abnormal serum aminotransferase levels both in low- and middle-income countries and in high-income countries and despite its high prevalence, well-defined screening recommendations are currently lacking. Objectives: The purpose of this study was to calculate statistical values of cherry angioma in the diagnosis of NAFLD. We were looking for evidence to be able to recommend cherry angioma as a screening tool for NAFLD that needs further investigations including ultrasonography. Patients and Methods: We studied individuals who visited the private clinic between July 2011 and December 2012 for health examinations. Physician evaluated each individual by different laboratory tests for systemic, viral and hereditary diseases and excluded those with any of these disease. After completion of physical examination, registration of the cherry angioma diagnosis and lab tests, 340 individuals referred to a radiologist for the diagnosis of NAFLD by abdominal ultrasonography. Results: Among 340 study subjects, 150 (44%) were males and 190 (55%) were females. Mean of age and BMI were 47.9 years and 26.9 kg/m2, respectively. Of referred individuals, we diagnosed 238 persons as fatty liver disease through abdominal ultrasonography. We assigned them as NAFLD group. The other 102 individuals were identified with normal livers and were assigned as non-NAFLD group. There was no difference in age and height but for weight and BMI between individuals of NAFLD and non-NAFLD groups. Individuals in NAFLD group were more obese than those in non-NAFLD group. Overall, sensitivity, specificity, PPV, NPV and accuracy were, 76.9, 80.4, 95.8, 37.5, and 77.4, respectively. All values were higher among women than men. The highest sensitivity was observed in individuals with age >40 years, and the highest specificity was observed in individuals with age ≤40 years. Conclusions: In conclusion, NAFLED can be sufficiently predicted by cherry angioma on physical examination. KEYWORDS Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLED), Cherry Angioma, Sensitivity, Specificity
https://www.cheeseslave.com/cherry-angiomas-iodine-and-bromide-detox/
"when the chemicals are detoxed from the body, they show up in the skin. The skin is one of our major detoxification organs."
Maybe going low A your thyroid gland is able to detox bromide?
Quote from SheilaE on April 17, 2019, 12:22 pmhttps://www.cheeseslave.com/cherry-angiomas-iodine-and-bromide-detox/
"when the chemicals are detoxed from the body, they show up in the skin. The skin is one of our major detoxification organs."
Maybe going low A your thyroid gland is able to detox bromide?
This is interesting, thank you. I was hypothyroid for several years and may still be.
96
Normal
0
false
false
false
EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE
/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
Hi ZJ,
Here’s my best guess as to what might be going on. Of course, this is mostly theoretical, so please apply your own good judgement to it.
There are studies showing that serum vitamin A levels actually increase when some people adopt a low vitamin A diet. Although that is completely counterintuitive, it is happening.
I think that happens because the flow direction into the liver is reversing, and / or the liver is starting to normalize its volume and is dumping more vitamin A into serum and bile. With that, I think it's this additional vitamin A (in the retinyl palmitate form) that is causing some people the serious "detox" reactions.
However, some people appear to handle this detox phase much better than others. It may be due to them having adequate detoxification enzymes (and a thousand other possible factors). I don’t know. Regardless, we need to find a reliable way for most people to avoid or minimize the consequences of the increased serum levels.
In some recent posts here, there’s a reference to a HHS (Health and Human Services) patent on a rescue agent from retinoid toxicity. I think that the listed compounds (sourced from foods) are a good starting point. Additionally, there this paper documenting the effects of lecithin, and that somewhat supports the reported effects of choline in the HHS patent.
The Effects of Soya Lecithin on the Absorption, Utilization and Storage of Vitamin a and Carotene in the white Rat
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/36/3/391/4726328
The data indicate that lecithin enhances both the absorption and utilization of vitamin A and carotene. The choline fraction of the lecithin molecule is not responsible for this effect.
In the context of this study, they state that lecithin enhances the absorption from food. But, if a person is on a very low vitamin A diet, then I don’t see that being a concern. Conversely, I do think that substances such as lecithin are actually what we do need in this phase.
That’s because, ideally, we need to try to capture that newly releasing vitamin A in serum before it can do us more harm by getting into our tissues. Lecithin appears to be doing that in this study. As an extra counter measure, if a person were to take say 1/4 teaspoon of activated charcoal (mixed in water) first thing in the mornings, that might help capture some of the extra vitamin A that is released in bile during the day and help block it from getting reabsorbed too.
Of course, there are the other counter measures discussed here; such as zinc, vitamin C, and safe forms of vitamin E.
I wish I could offer more concrete information.
Grant
Quote from ZJ on April 17, 2019, 9:54 amCherry Angiomas are little red bumps on the skin, considered benign, common, and increase with age. I've had several of these for as long as I can remember but after several months of low vitamin a more began to appear. I now have dozens of them and it seems like a new one pops up every day. Very little is known about them but they are formed by angiogenesis and there seems to be a correlation between them and fatty liver. Anyone else have these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_hemangioma
ABSTRACT Background: Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is becoming a significant problem especially through substantial increase in the incidence of obesity worldwide. Currently it is the most common cause of abnormal serum aminotransferase levels both in low- and middle-income countries and in high-income countries and despite its high prevalence, well-defined screening recommendations are currently lacking. Objectives: The purpose of this study was to calculate statistical values of cherry angioma in the diagnosis of NAFLD. We were looking for evidence to be able to recommend cherry angioma as a screening tool for NAFLD that needs further investigations including ultrasonography. Patients and Methods: We studied individuals who visited the private clinic between July 2011 and December 2012 for health examinations. Physician evaluated each individual by different laboratory tests for systemic, viral and hereditary diseases and excluded those with any of these disease. After completion of physical examination, registration of the cherry angioma diagnosis and lab tests, 340 individuals referred to a radiologist for the diagnosis of NAFLD by abdominal ultrasonography. Results: Among 340 study subjects, 150 (44%) were males and 190 (55%) were females. Mean of age and BMI were 47.9 years and 26.9 kg/m2, respectively. Of referred individuals, we diagnosed 238 persons as fatty liver disease through abdominal ultrasonography. We assigned them as NAFLD group. The other 102 individuals were identified with normal livers and were assigned as non-NAFLD group. There was no difference in age and height but for weight and BMI between individuals of NAFLD and non-NAFLD groups. Individuals in NAFLD group were more obese than those in non-NAFLD group. Overall, sensitivity, specificity, PPV, NPV and accuracy were, 76.9, 80.4, 95.8, 37.5, and 77.4, respectively. All values were higher among women than men. The highest sensitivity was observed in individuals with age >40 years, and the highest specificity was observed in individuals with age ≤40 years. Conclusions: In conclusion, NAFLED can be sufficiently predicted by cherry angioma on physical examination. KEYWORDS Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLED), Cherry Angioma, Sensitivity, Specificity
I have a few of those, have had them for a very long time. I don't think I have gotten more on the low A diet though but I have other skin issues flare up.
Grant, I eat sunflower seeds and sunbutter but will look into isolated lecithin. Do you think that even though sunflower seeds are fairly low in A and carotenoids that the lecithin pushes the amounts into the dangerous zone?
Hi Romaine,
No, I don't think the lecithin of the sunflower seeds are going to push it into a dangerous zone. And, if a person is low in other food source of vitamin A, then the lecithin's benefits will probably outweigh any risks.
I recently ate 30g/day of sunflower lecithin for about ten days. It coincided with a period when I was surprisingly healthy. I ran out, so I stopped and this coincided with a big decline in health -- possibly from a weather-related effect.
Sunflower lecithin has a lot of fat, which I interpret as a good thing for my limited diet.
Sunflower lecithin is less likely to be in supplement stores than soy (soya) lecithin or egg yolk lecithin, so I've reordered it from an online store.
I do have a small number (less than 10) of small bright red dots on my arms and chest. I think they come and go over time. I wondered what they were.
Soy lecithin is orangish yellow, which I found concerning.
"The color of soybean lecithin is due to carotenoids, brown pigments, and occasionally porphyrins. In the water-washing of crude oil xanthophylls are preferentially removed with the gums, and carotene is practically absent in lecithin. Lutein is the principal carotenoid, comprising about three-quarters of the carotenoids in lecithin. "
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02986416
"Color of soybean lecithin depends on processing and bleaching conditions. At our laboratory (11), we showed that xanthophylls are preferentially removed with the gums and that carotene remains with the oil. Lutein made up about 75% of the carotenoid pigments in the gums. These carotenoid pigments are largely destroyed by peroxide bleaching, leaving a variable amount of brown color with no characteristic absorption bands. Studies by Zuev et al. 02-14) have' confinned the fonnation of brown-colored substances as well as destruction of carotenoids by heating."
https://pubag.nal.usda.gov/pubag/downloadPDF.xhtml?id=26685&content=PDF
The sunflower lecithin (which may have helped me) was dark brown in color.
Uploaded files:
Quote from ggenereux on April 17, 2019, 1:13 pm96
Normal
0false
false
falseEN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}
Hi ZJ,
Here’s my best guess as to what might be going on. Of course, this is mostly theoretical, so please apply your own good judgement to it.
There are studies showing that serum vitamin A levels actually increase when some people adopt a low vitamin A diet. Although that is completely counterintuitive, it is happening.
I think that happens because the flow direction into the liver is reversing, and / or the liver is starting to normalize its volume and is dumping more vitamin A into serum and bile. With that, I think it's this additional vitamin A (in the retinyl palmitate form) that is causing some people the serious "detox" reactions.
However, some people appear to handle this detox phase much better than others. It may be due to them having adequate detoxification enzymes (and a thousand other possible factors). I don’t know. Regardless, we need to find a reliable way for most people to avoid or minimize the consequences of the increased serum levels.
In some recent posts here, there’s a reference to a HHS (Health and Human Services) patent on a rescue agent from retinoid toxicity. I think that the listed compounds (sourced from foods) are a good starting point. Additionally, there this paper documenting the effects of lecithin, and that somewhat supports the reported effects of choline in the HHS patent.
The Effects of Soya Lecithin on the Absorption, Utilization and Storage of Vitamin a and Carotene in the white Rat
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/36/3/391/4726328
The data indicate that lecithin enhances both the absorption and utilization of vitamin A and carotene. The choline fraction of the lecithin molecule is not responsible for this effect.
In the context of this study, they state that lecithin enhances the absorption from food. But, if a person is on a very low vitamin A diet, then I don’t see that being a concern. Conversely, I do think that substances such as lecithin are actually what we do need in this phase.
That’s because, ideally, we need to try to capture that newly releasing vitamin A in serum before it can do us more harm by getting into our tissues. Lecithin appears to be doing that in this study. As an extra counter measure, if a person were to take say 1/4 teaspoon of activated charcoal (mixed in water) first thing in the mornings, that might help capture some of the extra vitamin A that is released in bile during the day and help block it from getting reabsorbed too.
Of course, there are the other counter measures discussed here; such as zinc, vitamin C, and safe forms of vitamin E.
I wish I could offer more concrete information.
Grant
Hi Grant! Great to be able to talk to you here.
I have two questions about that sentence you quote from the study: "The data indicate that lecithin enhances both the absorption and utilization of vitamin A and carotene. The choline fraction of the lecithin molecule is not responsible for this effect."
- What is meant by absorption? Back into the liver, or absorption into the tissues?
- It says that lecithin also improves utilization. If there's some A in the blood serum, doesn't utilization mean that it will go to the tissues?
Happy easter everyone!
Hi Kirito,
- What is meant by absorption? Back into the liver, or absorption into the tissues?
Yes, back into the liver.
- It says that lecithin also improves utilization. If there's some A in the blood serum, doesn't utilization mean that it will go to the tissues?
I think that is referring to the scenario where lecithin is being included in a diet that contains vitamin A. So, like with other fats it will facilitate the transport an utilization on an inbound pathway. Whereas, for us, with no vitamin A in the diet, it might facilitate the transport an utilization on an outbound pathway. And, probably more important is that the lecithin can help maintain the cell membrane structure.