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Completely lost my ability to tolerate oxalate. Help!
This is how Karen Hurd explains what happens to the bile over time:
"
If you have gallbladder disease see all those hormones are cleared through the gallbladder and so if you're not clearing them then they keep recycling and then what most people don't understand about how gallbladder disease works is that it changes the pH as you keep recycling these things and the pH changes and when you change the pH, pH is just a negative log of hydrogen ions and when you start to change that then you have more concentration of hydrogen ions and those hydrogen ions they actually will change the physical state of your bile so your bile is a liquid but if you keep pumping it full and the pH changes and it changes with all those hormones and that's where they're going through then your bile will start to solidify it gets really sludgy little grains of sand start to form and then eventually it rolls into these balls and we call them stones and all that is just the bile that's become too hydrogenated. I mean it's just way too many hydrogen ions in there and so what we had to do is take the soluble fiber because that is going to cause new bile to be released that is not full of that has a different pH and then that is what actually dissolves those stones, those stones go away and at the same time you are throwing away all these excess hormones that were the reason that the stones formed so all that goes away too. "
This is talking about gallstones, but I don't think you have to be diagnosed with gallstones to have thick toxic bile. Then the bile isn't functioning as it should and pathogens start growing further up the digestive tract. Bile acids split endotoxin into fragments so you can see how thick sludgy bile might not be doing it's job so well! So no I don't agree to just keep eating the food that is feeding the pathogens and causing disease... but we need to solve the underlying root cause which is liver/bile dysfunction.
The bean protocol doesn't work overnight. It took me more than 6 months to really feel good and I had plenty of gas from them at the start, too. I don't think I had gall bladder problems but I had SIBO, GERD, and hemorrhoids. Everything got better with the beans except the SIBO. When I switched from salt (NaCl) to potassium chloride my SIBO went away, too.
Quote from Hermes on September 12, 2024, 7:39 amYou're having a rough time. It sounds like you also have problems with starches like bread and rice when you say they make you feel bad. Starches cause sleep problems for me. In my case, it's related to stubborn bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. Maybe this is something you could look into? In this case, as Janelle suggested, beans could also be problematic. They were for me. I believe they are beneficial as long as the SIBO doesn't interfere with starch digestion. I rely exclusively on glucose for carbs, about 650g to 750g daily. I also eat mostly chicken, very rarely fish. But these two meats don't cause any problems. But beef and even ham might, as I've recently begun to suspect. I also eat four egg yolks a day. Maybe eggs could be something to look into as well, as they support liver health.
How do you think eating $7 of sugar and 4 egg yolks per day is going to turn out medium term and long term?
Please verify, you are ingesting one of these every 3 days?
Did you get this idea from Dr David Peterson?
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Quote from Joe2 on September 12, 2024, 7:02 pmQuote from Rosa on September 12, 2024, 3:46 amQuote from Joe2 on September 11, 2024, 10:09 pmWhat oxalate foods are hurting?
Can you afford or tolerate beef, gluten free organic oats or mineral supplements?
I eat a lot of supplements to compensate for my poor diet. I can sometimes afford beef but not often. In my experience, oats have a ton of oxalates, more than I can handle
Going full carnivore is probably not needed. Sweets are probably not needed either and probably not helping. Probably not a big problem either as long as the sweet snarfing does not go on long term. At my carnivorist I maxxed at 42 oz /day. I found more than 32oz per day for a few days gave me stanky ammonia sweat and started me in on diabetic symptoms. So I kept mostly to keto and stayed around 20 to 24 oz / day. Much better.
Now I eat apples, dates, prunes, green peeled kiwi, black oatmeal, white rice, beef and chicken. Even now with all the carbs, I still eat 16 to 24 oz/ meat per day. Mostly steady improvement last 21 months. (My worst set back was after I burned my throat on hot soup - hard to attribute that to nutrient issues.) I still stay away from oxalates and have much more tolerance of them. That tolerance is increasing. Not a good enough reason to take potatoes seriously though. I can feel issues after a few days of them. I used to love potato skins, rhubarb, chard, spinach, kiwis with the skin,...... Guessing that oats are not so high in oxalates. I eat plenty daily and have for months with none of the usual suspect symptoms. My charcoal intake might be helping there too. That and I soak, rinse and cook them well in instant pot.
I found Grant on youtube interview with Judy Cho. Found Garrett right after. Have you listened to Garrett's youtube livestreams?
I came to Grant and Garrett because of isotretinoin induced sacroiliitis. 40 years of WAPF in various diets. The last 12 were low to no carb paleo / keto. Getting back on carbs was a challenge. Bifido is lacking after so long without carbs. Help with the how to on minerals, fiber, probiotics and charcoal was invaluable. Gut bacteria might have something to do with oxalate intolerance too. A few of them help process oxalates out.
Started back on carbs slow and low with apples. Along in there realized I needed more fiber. Oats seemed the safest. Started that low and slow. A spoonful a day for a week. Then two the next week. And on.
Low vitamin A paradigm is covered for free on the livestreams. Most of us binge watch them. Many of us DIY it by listening to the livestreams and asking questions on the chat. #53 and #71 cover #toxicbiletheory are probably the most important.
https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionDetective/videos
His LoveYourLiver network is $100/yr and excellent / helpful. Long form answers from many people having great results helping each other and all the newbies to vitamin A. I post a few of their testimonials here.
In my first 3 months working with LYL, I reduced my supplement intake 95%. And my costs as well. Beef tastes better than pills. Supplements for the deficient minerals are much cheaper. Much more effective.
As for oxalate tolerance, it returns. We generate them ourselves too so it is part of our systemic abilities when not damaged with toxins and deficiencies. Think I posted a testimonial yesterday from Weldon Willford. His gluten intolerance is gone now.
What are you eating? How is your poop? Frequency? What are you supplementing?
My diet consists of fish, chicken, sweets, yoghurt with honey and maybe a banana if I can handle it.
Poop is kind of hard to estimate because of my ileostomy. It’s always liquid because there’s very little fiber in my diet.
I have a whole array of supplements which I take as needed. Right now I’m taking Lipothiamine, B2, biotin, B12, D, K2 and Iron. Sometimes B3 helps me sleep.
Quote from Rosa on September 13, 2024, 11:54 pmQuote from Joe2 on September 12, 2024, 7:02 pmQuote from Rosa on September 12, 2024, 3:46 amQuote from Joe2 on September 11, 2024, 10:09 pmWhat oxalate foods are hurting?
Can you afford or tolerate beef, gluten free organic oats or mineral supplements?
I eat a lot of supplements to compensate for my poor diet. I can sometimes afford beef but not often. In my experience, oats have a ton of oxalates, more than I can handle
Going full carnivore is probably not needed. Sweets are probably not needed either and probably not helping. Probably not a big problem either as long as the sweet snarfing does not go on long term. At my carnivorist I maxxed at 42 oz /day. I found more than 32oz per day for a few days gave me stanky ammonia sweat and started me in on diabetic symptoms. So I kept mostly to keto and stayed around 20 to 24 oz / day. Much better.
Now I eat apples, dates, prunes, green peeled kiwi, black oatmeal, white rice, beef and chicken. Even now with all the carbs, I still eat 16 to 24 oz/ meat per day. Mostly steady improvement last 21 months. (My worst set back was after I burned my throat on hot soup - hard to attribute that to nutrient issues.) I still stay away from oxalates and have much more tolerance of them. That tolerance is increasing. Not a good enough reason to take potatoes seriously though. I can feel issues after a few days of them. I used to love potato skins, rhubarb, chard, spinach, kiwis with the skin,...... Guessing that oats are not so high in oxalates. I eat plenty daily and have for months with none of the usual suspect symptoms. My charcoal intake might be helping there too. That and I soak, rinse and cook them well in instant pot.
I found Grant on youtube interview with Judy Cho. Found Garrett right after. Have you listened to Garrett's youtube livestreams?
I came to Grant and Garrett because of isotretinoin induced sacroiliitis. 40 years of WAPF in various diets. The last 12 were low to no carb paleo / keto. Getting back on carbs was a challenge. Bifido is lacking after so long without carbs. Help with the how to on minerals, fiber, probiotics and charcoal was invaluable. Gut bacteria might have something to do with oxalate intolerance too. A few of them help process oxalates out.
Started back on carbs slow and low with apples. Along in there realized I needed more fiber. Oats seemed the safest. Started that low and slow. A spoonful a day for a week. Then two the next week. And on.
Low vitamin A paradigm is covered for free on the livestreams. Most of us binge watch them. Many of us DIY it by listening to the livestreams and asking questions on the chat. #53 and #71 cover #toxicbiletheory are probably the most important.
https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionDetective/videos
His LoveYourLiver network is $100/yr and excellent / helpful. Long form answers from many people having great results helping each other and all the newbies to vitamin A. I post a few of their testimonials here.
In my first 3 months working with LYL, I reduced my supplement intake 95%. And my costs as well. Beef tastes better than pills. Supplements for the deficient minerals are much cheaper. Much more effective.
As for oxalate tolerance, it returns. We generate them ourselves too so it is part of our systemic abilities when not damaged with toxins and deficiencies. Think I posted a testimonial yesterday from Weldon Willford. His gluten intolerance is gone now.
What are you eating? How is your poop? Frequency? What are you supplementing?
My diet consists of fish, chicken, sweets, yoghurt with honey and maybe a banana if I can handle it.
Poop is kind of hard to estimate because of my ileostomy. It’s always liquid because there’s very little fiber in my diet.
I have a whole array of supplements which I take as needed. Right now I’m taking Lipothiamine, B2, biotin, B12, D, K2 and Iron. Sometimes B3 helps me sleep.
Not sure it is oxalates that are the problem with the oats.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/oxalate-content-grains-legumes-nuts-and-seeds/
Quote from Hermes on September 13, 2024, 11:18 amWhat is the best way to do this? I've tried beans, one even caused some problems. They ferment in a gut full of excess bacteria. It's a Catch 22 situation.
@hermes I hope you don't feel like everyone is jumping on your case. But I'm on this kick of wondering how prevalent parasites are after my friend's problem. I saw a video that mentioned insomnia and parasites yesterday, I wonder if it would be worthwhile for you to try that hypothesis? There are problems in her case too with "it's hard to find foods to eat that don't cause a reaction". I think she is trying a weekly herbal thing. She didn't get much help identifying the culprit. Personally if it were me I might try ivermectin, it seems like maybe something to try when they've tried everything else, LOL. I'm curious about ivermectin, and about the whole issue of parasites now.
Quote from Joe2 on September 14, 2024, 1:11 amQuote from Rosa on September 13, 2024, 11:54 pmQuote from Joe2 on September 12, 2024, 7:02 pmQuote from Rosa on September 12, 2024, 3:46 amQuote from Joe2 on September 11, 2024, 10:09 pmWhat oxalate foods are hurting?
Can you afford or tolerate beef, gluten free organic oats or mineral supplements?
I eat a lot of supplements to compensate for my poor diet. I can sometimes afford beef but not often. In my experience, oats have a ton of oxalates, more than I can handle
Going full carnivore is probably not needed. Sweets are probably not needed either and probably not helping. Probably not a big problem either as long as the sweet snarfing does not go on long term. At my carnivorist I maxxed at 42 oz /day. I found more than 32oz per day for a few days gave me stanky ammonia sweat and started me in on diabetic symptoms. So I kept mostly to keto and stayed around 20 to 24 oz / day. Much better.
Now I eat apples, dates, prunes, green peeled kiwi, black oatmeal, white rice, beef and chicken. Even now with all the carbs, I still eat 16 to 24 oz/ meat per day. Mostly steady improvement last 21 months. (My worst set back was after I burned my throat on hot soup - hard to attribute that to nutrient issues.) I still stay away from oxalates and have much more tolerance of them. That tolerance is increasing. Not a good enough reason to take potatoes seriously though. I can feel issues after a few days of them. I used to love potato skins, rhubarb, chard, spinach, kiwis with the skin,...... Guessing that oats are not so high in oxalates. I eat plenty daily and have for months with none of the usual suspect symptoms. My charcoal intake might be helping there too. That and I soak, rinse and cook them well in instant pot.
I found Grant on youtube interview with Judy Cho. Found Garrett right after. Have you listened to Garrett's youtube livestreams?
I came to Grant and Garrett because of isotretinoin induced sacroiliitis. 40 years of WAPF in various diets. The last 12 were low to no carb paleo / keto. Getting back on carbs was a challenge. Bifido is lacking after so long without carbs. Help with the how to on minerals, fiber, probiotics and charcoal was invaluable. Gut bacteria might have something to do with oxalate intolerance too. A few of them help process oxalates out.
Started back on carbs slow and low with apples. Along in there realized I needed more fiber. Oats seemed the safest. Started that low and slow. A spoonful a day for a week. Then two the next week. And on.
Low vitamin A paradigm is covered for free on the livestreams. Most of us binge watch them. Many of us DIY it by listening to the livestreams and asking questions on the chat. #53 and #71 cover #toxicbiletheory are probably the most important.
https://www.youtube.com/@NutritionDetective/videos
His LoveYourLiver network is $100/yr and excellent / helpful. Long form answers from many people having great results helping each other and all the newbies to vitamin A. I post a few of their testimonials here.
In my first 3 months working with LYL, I reduced my supplement intake 95%. And my costs as well. Beef tastes better than pills. Supplements for the deficient minerals are much cheaper. Much more effective.
As for oxalate tolerance, it returns. We generate them ourselves too so it is part of our systemic abilities when not damaged with toxins and deficiencies. Think I posted a testimonial yesterday from Weldon Willford. His gluten intolerance is gone now.
What are you eating? How is your poop? Frequency? What are you supplementing?
My diet consists of fish, chicken, sweets, yoghurt with honey and maybe a banana if I can handle it.
Poop is kind of hard to estimate because of my ileostomy. It’s always liquid because there’s very little fiber in my diet.
I have a whole array of supplements which I take as needed. Right now I’m taking Lipothiamine, B2, biotin, B12, D, K2 and Iron. Sometimes B3 helps me sleep.
Not sure it is oxalates that are the problem with the oats.
https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/oxalate-content-grains-legumes-nuts-and-seeds/
Online there is a lot of contradictory information about the oxalate content of oats. In my experience, the reaction I get from them is similar to other high-oxalate foods. Of course, I could be mistaken.
How do you think eating $7 of sugar and 4 egg yolks per day is going to turn out medium term and long term?
Sure, investing in health takes time, effort and money. Well, we can rewind time a bit. I started the low vitamin A diet in March 2019. For the first three years, I basically did a low vitamin A approach tailored to my needs, with no eggs, no butter. I avoided retinol like the plague. My labs haven't moved. In early January it was 3.1 μmol/l, rose to 4.14 μmol/l in late summer of that year, but never dropped below 3.0 μmol/l in consecutive tests in the following years. That was the exact value I got almost a year ago, in May 2023. Imagine the frustration. I was on a low vitamin A diet, but my dietary interventions weren't working. Then I started eating some eggs, reluctantly, almost afraid of the poison A, but I kept going and eventually over the course of this year I've started to increase to four, sometimes even five egg yolks. And I started to lose some of my edge, I got calmer, I felt like something was going in the right direction. This September I took another vitamin A test, my sixth. God, I was nervous when the results arrived in my inbox. And I celebrated when I read the lab result: 2.51 μmol/L. Finally! After years of not detoxing much, something is happening that matches a lab value. No, eggs don't unnecessarily add to the vitamin A load, but they do help the liver to detoxify. All these years I've relied heavily on dextrose for carbohydrates. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I tried sourdough bread once, rice again. I like to cook once in a while and eat pasta or something other than dextrose. Yes, eggs are beneficial, yes, dextrose is no problem.
Please verify, you are ingesting one of these every 3 days?
You're making up numbers. I eat dextrose, usually four egg yolks EVERY day.
Did you get this idea from Dr David Peterson?
No, Andrew Baird (eggs) and me (dextrose). Remember, the dextrose thing goes back to when I was invested in the Ray Peat diet. Sugar is the bread of Peaters. To realize that dextrose is the most digestible sugar doesn't take much imagination when all you do is gorge on fruit, juices and cola. Note that sucrose and fructose are very different from dextrose. They put stress on the liver, glucose doesn't.
@hermes I hope you don't feel like everyone is jumping on your case. But I'm on this kick of wondering how prevalent parasites are after my friend's problem. I saw a video that mentioned insomnia and parasites yesterday, I wonder if it would be worthwhile for you to try that hypothesis? There are problems in her case too with "it's hard to find foods to eat that don't cause a reaction". I think she is trying a weekly herbal thing. She didn't get much help identifying the culprit. Personally if it were me I might try ivermectin, it seems like maybe something to try when they've tried everything else, LOL. I'm curious about ivermectin, and about the whole issue of parasites now.
Bacteria can't survive in the small intestine unless the conditions are there. Which could be a backflow problem, the ileocecal valve not closing and leaking some of the bacteria back up into the small intestine, if you massage that area it will feel very tender. No tenderness no problem usually. Then there could be some kind of stomach acid issue leading to bacteria making it's way past the stomach or just in general not breaking down food properly. Then the bile needs to be flowing properly with good ph to cause a 'sizzle' if you will when it combines with the stomach acid, this is where a good majority of nutrient absorption is going to start happening. Without this sizzle.. well you are left with nutrient deficiencies. Good bile flow and ph is what is going to make the small intestine an inhospitable place for bacteria. If not then the bacteria are growing and eating the food that your body should be absorbing. I know Tim used herbal remedies to eliminate his sibo problems, but I didn't have to do this. I focused on good stomach acid and bile flow. Insulin resistance could also make bacteria and fungi a problem. So that is my long term goal, good liver function, improved insulin sensitivity, maximize nutrient absorption, good bowel movements.