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Conventional beef vs grassfed beef
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 7:45 am
The longer I get into this the more I heap all VA together, and so whether it is yellow or not yellow doesn't really matter as much to me... Although a meat might have yellow fat or white, who knows what the entire VA load is? The white cleaved VA content could be sky high.
The longer I get into this the more I heap all VA together, and so whether it is yellow or not yellow doesn't really matter as much to me... Although a meat might have yellow fat or white, who knows what the entire VA load is? The white cleaved VA content could be sky high.
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Quote from
tim on May 30, 2021, 7:53 am
@jeremy
What are the primary health claims for grass fed? Because cattle live off the bacteria in their gut rather than what they eat their levels of both Omega 6 and 3 are always fairly small and non significant irrespective of their diet. I think it is true though that feeding grain long term to ruminants will result in health problems. It may be best for cattle to eat more organic mould free hay than fresh grass before being grain finished for a short time, I would think that would result in them being healthy and producing the best meat but I'm no expert on the subject.
Just as an aside, I read about a buffalo farmer than sprayed dilute sea water on half a paddock and let his buffalo in to start grazing. Very quickly they stuck to only the area that had been sprayed with sea water. Sea water contains every trace element and some researchers believe that grass takes up the full spectrum of essential trace elements necessary for ruminant health whereas other plants don't. Well mineralized grass makes well mineralized hay so there is not benefit there from grass fed.
@jeremy
What are the primary health claims for grass fed? Because cattle live off the bacteria in their gut rather than what they eat their levels of both Omega 6 and 3 are always fairly small and non significant irrespective of their diet. I think it is true though that feeding grain long term to ruminants will result in health problems. It may be best for cattle to eat more organic mould free hay than fresh grass before being grain finished for a short time, I would think that would result in them being healthy and producing the best meat but I'm no expert on the subject.
Just as an aside, I read about a buffalo farmer than sprayed dilute sea water on half a paddock and let his buffalo in to start grazing. Very quickly they stuck to only the area that had been sprayed with sea water. Sea water contains every trace element and some researchers believe that grass takes up the full spectrum of essential trace elements necessary for ruminant health whereas other plants don't. Well mineralized grass makes well mineralized hay so there is not benefit there from grass fed.
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 7:57 am
My ancestors in Nova Scotia ran all of their farms this way (fertilized with sea water as they had done in France) and got very good results, (with an intricate system of dikes) leading to the British routing them and taking over their lands. The prisoners were sent to many places including New England, and that's why I'm here rather than in Canada. No one ever figured out how to get the dikes to work again.
My ancestors in Nova Scotia ran all of their farms this way (fertilized with sea water as they had done in France) and got very good results, (with an intricate system of dikes) leading to the British routing them and taking over their lands. The prisoners were sent to many places including New England, and that's why I'm here rather than in Canada. No one ever figured out how to get the dikes to work again.
Quote from
tim on May 30, 2021, 8:02 am
Dilute sea water or bitterns (the waste product from salt production) is a magical substance to spray on fields as long as the soil is not clay. You can use a small amount of bitterns on clay soil. Celery and beetroot which are both coastal plants love a bit of sea water, I watered half a patch of beetroot with dilute sea water and the side that got the sea water had perfect unblemished lush leaves whereas the side that didn't get the sea water looked much less healthy.
Dilute sea water or bitterns (the waste product from salt production) is a magical substance to spray on fields as long as the soil is not clay. You can use a small amount of bitterns on clay soil. Celery and beetroot which are both coastal plants love a bit of sea water, I watered half a patch of beetroot with dilute sea water and the side that got the sea water had perfect unblemished lush leaves whereas the side that didn't get the sea water looked much less healthy.
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Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 8:07 am
I think it probably is completely natural for farm animals to be raised on several rounds (2-3) of green grass which always come to seed. A lull of growth is typical in the middle of hot summer. And then winter is probably always more like hay and seed.
Price did see something special about the butter in the green growth time, which I assume is the VK content. Just as if you decided to eat kale salads for a month.
But this is very interesting and explains that a cycle takes place, and the VK-heavy part of the cycle isn't forever.
I think it probably is completely natural for farm animals to be raised on several rounds (2-3) of green grass which always come to seed. A lull of growth is typical in the middle of hot summer. And then winter is probably always more like hay and seed.
Price did see something special about the butter in the green growth time, which I assume is the VK content. Just as if you decided to eat kale salads for a month.
But this is very interesting and explains that a cycle takes place, and the VK-heavy part of the cycle isn't forever.
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 8:12 am
In the Swiss mountains, the shepherds follow the line of spring up the mountains, and then back down again, and at the bottom the herd is kept confined all winter close by the town and fed on hay. That produced a healthy lifestyle (of cheese and meat) according to Price. They weren't on green grass all year. (and no supps! except salt)
In the Swiss mountains, the shepherds follow the line of spring up the mountains, and then back down again, and at the bottom the herd is kept confined all winter close by the town and fed on hay. That produced a healthy lifestyle (of cheese and meat) according to Price. They weren't on green grass all year. (and no supps! except salt)
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Quote from
Chelan on May 30, 2021, 8:18 am
Quote from
tim on May 30, 2021, 7:34 am
Grass growing on unfarmed plains is not usually lush and green, there is usually a lot of dry matter.
In the horse world it's widely known not to let horses gorge on fresh green grass, in the wild they eat a lot more dry grass and roughage. It's thought that green grass causes hoof problems due to causing insulin resistance.
Cows can also develop problems gorging on lush immature green grass. It's called grass tetany. Eating lush green grass can also cause "Grass Founder" aka Laminitis....... this is especially true for horses and to a somewhat lesser extent donkeys and mules.
So, it would appear that eating strictly lush green grass may not be the ideal diet for many animals.
Quote from
tim on May 30, 2021, 7:34 am
Grass growing on unfarmed plains is not usually lush and green, there is usually a lot of dry matter.
In the horse world it's widely known not to let horses gorge on fresh green grass, in the wild they eat a lot more dry grass and roughage. It's thought that green grass causes hoof problems due to causing insulin resistance.
Cows can also develop problems gorging on lush immature green grass. It's called grass tetany. Eating lush green grass can also cause "Grass Founder" aka Laminitis....... this is especially true for horses and to a somewhat lesser extent donkeys and mules.
So, it would appear that eating strictly lush green grass may not be the ideal diet for many animals.
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Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 8:25 am
When do we start the international Genereux Mail-Order Beef Farm co-operative?
When do we start the international Genereux Mail-Order Beef Farm co-operative?
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Quote from
tim on May 30, 2021, 8:48 am
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 8:12 am
In the Swiss mountains, the shepherds follow the line of spring up the mountains, and then back down again, and at the bottom the herd is kept confined all winter close by the town and fed on hay. That produced a healthy lifestyle (of cheese and meat) according to Price. They weren't on green grass all year. (and no supps! except salt)
Price certainly waxed lyrical about the remote Swiss villagers. Hard to know how much is true, the bit about the athletes drinking fresh cream makes me feel sick, that can't be true?
"Each valley or village has its own special feast days of which athletic contests are the principal
events. The feasting in the past has been largely on dairy products. The athletes were provided with
large bowls of cream as constituting one of the most popular and healthful beverages, and special
cheese was always available. Practically no wine was used because no grapes grew in that valley, and
for centuries the isolation of the people prevented access to much material that would provide wine."
Their diet sounds unpleasant, mostly dairy and rye bread. Why would they want to feast on dairy products when they had them all year around?
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 8:12 am
In the Swiss mountains, the shepherds follow the line of spring up the mountains, and then back down again, and at the bottom the herd is kept confined all winter close by the town and fed on hay. That produced a healthy lifestyle (of cheese and meat) according to Price. They weren't on green grass all year. (and no supps! except salt)
Price certainly waxed lyrical about the remote Swiss villagers. Hard to know how much is true, the bit about the athletes drinking fresh cream makes me feel sick, that can't be true?
"Each valley or village has its own special feast days of which athletic contests are the principal
events. The feasting in the past has been largely on dairy products. The athletes were provided with
large bowls of cream as constituting one of the most popular and healthful beverages, and special
cheese was always available. Practically no wine was used because no grapes grew in that valley, and
for centuries the isolation of the people prevented access to much material that would provide wine."
Their diet sounds unpleasant, mostly dairy and rye bread. Why would they want to feast on dairy products when they had them all year around?
Quote from
lil chick on May 30, 2021, 9:44 am
Interesting. My maiden name is the same as a french alpine mountain, and so I feel that I could be descended from these same people. To me, LOL, a diet of bread and cheese sounds AWESOME. Dairy agrees with me. When I came off my vegan experiment I couldn't wait to get my hands on cream. When you add *tomato* to a bread/cheese dish-- that is when it becomes poison to me (it seems). (and yet I love pizza) I find it interesting that wine was not available, (perhaps a wrong addiction of mine) and if Alpine people weren't big drinkers that might have lent clearer detox pathways. Personally, I sort of wonder if the VA content of the fat in milk is quite similar to the fat of the cow when you slaughter her. That's my own little theory there. I'm very curious if milk might have more ANTIDOTES than meat would, I'm sure nature would try to provide some.
I don't think Price overstated the health of the Swiss lifestyle, I think it was well known. As was the reputation of the Masai.
Interesting. My maiden name is the same as a french alpine mountain, and so I feel that I could be descended from these same people. To me, LOL, a diet of bread and cheese sounds AWESOME. Dairy agrees with me. When I came off my vegan experiment I couldn't wait to get my hands on cream. When you add *tomato* to a bread/cheese dish-- that is when it becomes poison to me (it seems). (and yet I love pizza) I find it interesting that wine was not available, (perhaps a wrong addiction of mine) and if Alpine people weren't big drinkers that might have lent clearer detox pathways. Personally, I sort of wonder if the VA content of the fat in milk is quite similar to the fat of the cow when you slaughter her. That's my own little theory there. I'm very curious if milk might have more ANTIDOTES than meat would, I'm sure nature would try to provide some.
I don't think Price overstated the health of the Swiss lifestyle, I think it was well known. As was the reputation of the Masai.
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