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Detox setback and adaptable body type

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@ronn thank you for this information! This is really useful. I have thought that I felt a little more relieved with the addition of scallops and grass fed beef fat (separately), though the VA in the beef fat eventually caught up with me. The relief effect was pretty subtle, so it could be in my head, and even if it was real, I have no proof that it was from the Omega-3s. But definitely something I will be watching for!

Interesting about the sulphorphane. Glad it brought you relief!

Were your improvements and subsequent setbacks happening for the same symptoms?

 

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@ronn What I suggest doing is increasing choline first for few months and then in my second stage I am increasing white cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, fennel root, onions, swedes, parsnips, beans, lentils and potatoes. Before with low choline I got weird cramps from eating some of these foods. Now I can eat much larger amounts and no problem. It does seem to me from my symptoms that the detox increases with sulfur. The extra fibre seems to help bile flow and reduce heartburn for me. GS says sulfur slows the detox. Most liver detox experts say sulfur, cruciferous vegetables and the substances in them are very helpful for detox. Perhaps the people that experienced symptoms in this forum from cauliflower were because the detox increased when it was already strong and choline was low (my speculation). 

Sulfation. https://www.kithandkinwellness.com/blog-posts/phase-two-detoxification

Broccoli sprouts and sulforaphane for benzene and other air pollutants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4125483/

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@margo Beef fat is quite high in choline 80 mgs per 100 grams so it might stimulate bile flow and detox along with the fat increase itself.

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Margo

@andrew-b I had looked into that, but I was only doing a TBSP or so at a time, so about 10 mg of choline, so I don’t think that was it for me.

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@ronn

Have you tried malic (the acid in apple juice) or phosphoric acid (the acid in Coca-Cola) for the gallstones? Not advising you do but could be something you'd be interested in researching.

Eating high fat or high cholesterol foods tends to aggravate gallstones. Oat porridge and mushrooms may be helpful as they are high in beta-glucan which soaks up bile and lowers cholesterol levels. 

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@ronn

With regard to gallstones what research have you done? Do you know of Ursodeoxycholic acid? It dissolves cholesterol gallstones, improves cholestasis and reduces SIBO.

“Sulforaphane Accelerates Acetaldehyde Metabolism by Inducing Aldehyde Dehydrogenases: Relevance to Ethanol Intolerance
July 2013Alcohol and Alcoholism 48(5)
DOI: 10.1093/alcalc/agt063
Abstract
Many East Asians are highly intolerant to even modest alcohol consumption.
🟥🟥These individuals accumulate ◾️◾️◾️acetaldehyde, the primary metabolite of ethanol, because of a genetic polymorphism of aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) that metabolizes acetaldehyde to nontoxic acetate.
The aim of these studies is to upregulate ALDH by dietary means, thereby reducing acetaldehyde toxicity.
Sulforaphane [◾️◾️SF, 1-isothiocyano-4-(methylsulfinyl)butane] derived from its glucosinolate precursor contained in cruciferous vegetables and related inducers of the Keap1/Nrf2/ARE pathway were assessed for their potencies to induce ALDH in murine hepatoma Hepa1c1c7 cells.
❇️❇️Inducer potencies for ALDH were ➖➖➖compared with those for NQO1, a prototypical cytoprotective enzyme present downstream of the Keap1/Nrf2/ARE pathway.
SF (5 or 20 µmol/day) was fed to CD-1 mice for 7 days prior to a single administration of ethanol, and then ALDH induction in organs and pharmacokinetics of acetaldehyde was examined.
In addition to SF, other electrophiles, including many Michael reaction acceptors, induce ALDH.
Potencies of these agents as inducers parallel their activities in inducing
NQO1, and are also dependent on Nrf2.
In mice, in vivo, feeding of SF induced tissue ALDH and 👉👉👉dramatically increased (doubled) the rate of elimination of acetaldehyde arising from the administration of ethanol. ‼️
SF and other edible phytochemicals may ameliorate the alcohol intolerance of individuals who are polymorphic with respect to ALDH.”
 
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@andrew-b I also couldn't deal with alcohol. I would drink 3 beers in my teens and I would get sick. Crazy headache, throwing up.. That's why I don't drink at all...

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JennypuddleduckArminAndrew B
Quote from Andrew B on March 18, 2023, 3:45 am
“Sulforaphane Accelerates Acetaldehyde Metabolism by Inducing Aldehyde Dehydrogenases: Relevance to Ethanol Intolerance
July 2013Alcohol and Alcoholism 48(5)
DOI: 10.1093/alcalc/agt063
Abstract
Many East Asians are highly intolerant to even modest alcohol consumption.
🟥🟥These individuals accumulate ◾️◾️◾️acetaldehyde, the primary metabolite of ethanol, because of a genetic polymorphism of aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) that metabolizes acetaldehyde to nontoxic acetate.
The aim of these studies is to upregulate ALDH by dietary means, thereby reducing acetaldehyde toxicity.
Sulforaphane [◾️◾️SF, 1-isothiocyano-4-(methylsulfinyl)butane] derived from its glucosinolate precursor contained in cruciferous vegetables and related inducers of the Keap1/Nrf2/ARE pathway were assessed for their potencies to induce ALDH in murine hepatoma Hepa1c1c7 cells.
❇️❇️Inducer potencies for ALDH were ➖➖➖compared with those for NQO1, a prototypical cytoprotective enzyme present downstream of the Keap1/Nrf2/ARE pathway.
SF (5 or 20 µmol/day) was fed to CD-1 mice for 7 days prior to a single administration of ethanol, and then ALDH induction in organs and pharmacokinetics of acetaldehyde was examined.
In addition to SF, other electrophiles, including many Michael reaction acceptors, induce ALDH.
Potencies of these agents as inducers parallel their activities in inducing
NQO1, and are also dependent on Nrf2.
In mice, in vivo, feeding of SF induced tissue ALDH and 👉👉👉dramatically increased (doubled) the rate of elimination of acetaldehyde arising from the administration of ethanol. ‼️
SF and other edible phytochemicals may ameliorate the alcohol intolerance of individuals who are polymorphic with respect to ALDH.”
 

Interesting. I wonder what a continuous administration of SF would result in or if would be advantageous to pulse exposure to SF. SF is relatively cheap to supplement. 

Aren't you afraid of the devil coming into you with that sulfur? 😉

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JennyPJRonnAndrew B

@jiri I could never drink more than 4 beers. Wish I'd taken the signs earlier. I also discovered I had an intolerance to beer when I tested foods 10-20 years later.

@armin After my choline replenishment exercise I'm finding great benefit from incorporating sulforaphane foods like broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts and white cabbage. I cottoned on to the devil's plan. It was to make us fear all foods so we'd stop eating anything 🙂

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JennyLizpuddleduckNavnArminPJRonn
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