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Documenting my experience
One question that comes to mind is do you think that your ancestors ate a lot of fruit? Were they from tropical climes?
I can see that probably it is a human thing to eat a lot of fruit in season, and keep some for winter. But I don't think my ancestors ate a lot of fruit all year round. But I do think they had at least a little bit of fruit daily, in the form of jellies, stewed fruits, pickles and raisins.
I think the amount of vit C might be a very interesting thing to bring to the table, though. Scurvy and VA toxicity have an overlap.
What about B12?
Definitely give only fruit for breakfast a try! I find that mono meals of fruit are best (i.e. one type of fruit) - makes digestion even simpler for the body. With regards to detoxification, I believe that the name of the game is to give the body as much time and energy as possible for cleansing and healing. Digestion can take enormous amounts of energy - precious time that could be spent in repair mode. If you're eating beef 3x a day, and that beef takes 48-72 hours to digest, well, where are you getting the energy to heal?
I could write a book on all I've learned about the lymphatic system and my experience with detox symptoms and healing crises... but a few quick takeaways (which are probably quite obvious) are: gentle movement, proper breathing, grounding, and sauna. The lymphatic system doesn't have a pump like the blood, so it needs movement to get going (nothing crazy - walking, yoga, rebounding, etc is plenty). Proper breathing also helps move or "pump" your lymph (plus it helps to properly oxygenate your blood). Grounding I find extremely beneficial from an electrical perspective - everything is energy at the end of the day. And your skin is your largest eliminative organ, so sweating is SO helpful and I've found the sauna is the most effective for this. Sure you could do really intense workouts and sweat, but I don't believe this is smart during detox - again, it's a lot of energy that your body will need to use not only to workout but also to repair and flush out the lactic acid produced by the muscles.
There are low VA fruits - I recall apples and bananas and maybe green grapes being on Dr. Smith's OK list? I think Grant also ate raisins on occasion. One thought... if you take a look at my above post and what I normally eat, you'll see that my diet is extremely low fat. I believe Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin. So perhaps the VA from the fruit is not even being absorbed by my body? Just looking at this through the "Vitamin A is a poison" lens (I obviously don't actually believe this).
You say "it's all about balance" and I respectfully disagree here. What is balance anyway? A manmade term, something we've been conditioned to believe. A cow's diet is entirely grass - not very balanced - yet they do just fine (until humans slaughter them, but that's another story). If we're talking about true balance here, fruit does contain it all - carbs, fats, and proteins. Sure, the amounts are trace, but perhaps we don't need as much as we think? A lot of our recommendations come from industry-driven propaganda. Another interesting note - fruits contain amino acids, the building blocks of protein. If you eat animal protein, your body must first break apart the bonds to get to these amino acids. So basically, it's an extra step (and energy) for the body to get what it actually needs. Fruit cuts out this middle man. In addition, you don't need to eat protein to create protein in the human body. Most of the protein used in our body is actually recycled protein. I fully subscribe to the belief that the body knows exactly what to do and how to do it, just feed it properly and get out of the way.
The other thing that always nagged at me while I was doing the low VA diet was the fact that Grant didn't take Accutane. I was quick to jump on the "VA is a poison" train because I took this drug, and the theory seemed logical. However, retinoic acid made in a lab is ENTIRELY different than a vitamin found in food provided by nature. (In fact, I believe that not only pharma drugs but also all manmade supplements are dangerous to the body, and I would argue that a diet requiring supplementation is not optimal.) Furthermore, anyone who has taken Accutane knows that after your course, you are left with clear skin (which may or may not last). So, we can all agree that Accutane is horrific for the body... yet it leads to clear skin. Perhaps symptom disappearance is simply symptom suppression? The same logic works for steroids, antibiotics, etc. If the skin (or other areas of the body) are unable to expectorate and expel toxins, well, who knows what problems we are burying inside the body? That's why this all gets so tricky. I love reading stories of healing, but they are all over the map (you can find a healing story connected to just about any diet). That's why for me, it was best to keep it simple and try to figure out how nature intended us to eat. I don't know about you, but if I were on my own living in the jungle, I likely wouldn't be killing a cow every day for my food and harvesting grains of rice. I'd probably just pick a mango off a tree and go on with my day...
Haha that sounds good! I’m not a meat fan so I can agree with that. If you haven’t got great digestion then too much meat can just be well...too much. My comment about balance was not well explained - I mean a balance between food, digestion & detoxification. I do believe that vA in excess is a real problem for the body so in this context improving detoxification or reducing amount coming in has same effect. The balance between out and in.
Good point about low fat and vA. Studying nutritional therapy we were told to add butter to carrots to absorb the betacarotene. The fruit diet could in fact be another permutation of a low vA diet. One that reduces fat and increases detoxification enough to lead to health after Accutane. Whatever it does, it’s great that it’s worked so well for you Michele. I’m always fascinated by how very different diets work for different people.
Well...if you go back far enough, I think all of our ancestors were from tropical climates. 🙂 Without clothing, a home, a heating system (like all animals in nature), I'm fairly certain I wouldn't survive year-round in most climates outside of the equator! Sure, we adapted and found ways to live in other areas, but that doesn't mean it's natural - it's simply survival!
As you say, your ancestors likely did not eat a lot of fruit... well, perhaps this is why your genetic tree (like most genetic trees these days) became weaker and weaker over time. Clearly your ancestors did not gift you with perfect health (and mine sure as hell didn't either!).
What is your concern about Vitamin C?
As far as B12... I agree it is a vital nutrient. B12 is made by bacteria. We have more bacteria in our bodies than we do cells. So I'm fairly certain my body is making plenty of B12. The real question is... is my body utilizing the B12 properly? That's the key for all of the nutrients we consume, in my opinion. It's not how much you ingest, it's how well (if at all) your body is able to use it. In a clean, healthy and hydrated body, there is proper assimilation and utilization. However, when you are clogged up with toxins, mucus, and other garbage, nutrients can't get into your cells which leads to poorly functioning glands.
B12 is such a hot topic in the vegan vs. meat-eating community, with carnivores proudly displaying their serum B12 tests as some sort of victory. Well, yes, meat-eaters will obviously have more B12 in their bloodstream. Just like humans, animals also have more bacteria in their body than cells, so they are producing plenty of B12. Meat-eating humans eat animals, and therefore ingest more B12. However, I wouldn't be so proud to have exorbitant amounts of B12 floating in my bloodstream. That is not a measure of the B12 actually getting INTO and being utilized by your cells. Unfortunately, there's no test for that. Another reason why I don't get too hung up on blood tests. Another allopathic merry-go-round.
Interesting fact - vegans and meat-eaters have about the same incidence of B12 deficiency related symptoms (most notably, brain damage). Therefore, it's clearly not about ingesting more B12, it's about your cells being able to utilize what is actually there.
@michele "Perhaps symptom disappearance is simply symptom suppression?" Might this not apply to your fruit diet as well, as I suggested in my previous post?
I wish everyone the best health, and I'm glad you found life again, but there's virtually nothing in the science that indicates humans evolved with a fruit-based diet. We diverged from monkeys a looooong time ago, and even monkeys don't subsist on just fruit. Finding and acquiring substantial amounts of fruit in the wild is not easy, especially in the off season. It usually doesn't store for long. Don't forget that most or all of the fruit you are consuming is a mutant version of wild fruit that's been selectively cultivated over hundreds or thousands of years...the ability to get that many calories from fruit is a very recent phenomenon.
However, it is clearly benefitting you in some ways, so I would not argue with its potential for clearing up some health problems in the short term. It is quite likely that it serves the purpose of low Vitamin A intake, but the question remains as to what impact the fructose and other sugars, as well as the abundance of Vitamin C, are having on detox processes.
I hope that if you find your health starting to deteriorate again on the fruit diet you will be kind enough to let us know about that. But for your sake, let's hope that's not the case!
@wavygravygadzooks Of course, it absolutely may apply to my diet, your diet, everyone's diet. 🙂 I was simply making a point that you can find "healing" stories related to just about any diet if you look hard enough. Same goes for science, as I said, you can find studies supporting just about anything. So it's hard for me to take either very seriously - it becomes a very dizzying and confusing exercise. I had to find something that intuitively made sense to me, given that all other animals on this planet are pretty clear on the diet they should be eating without the help of google.
As far as your statement about "diverging from monkeys a loooong time ago". Well, do you know this for a fact? Were you alive a "looooong time ago"? I assume this is something you've read, but this is a theory, not a fact. Also, I never said we evolved from monkeys, but we are much more similar to them than we are to lions. You're also assuming I believe in evolution. Again, we can't prove who is right or wrong here, but you simply cannot state any of this as fact.
If you live in your natural habitat, you can find plenty of fruit in the wild. Have you ever been to the tropics? Trust me, it's easy. 🙂 I agree that if you travel outside your natural habitat, this becomes infinitely harder. If a polar bear moves to the middle of the US, then yes, he is going to have a difficult time finding seals to eat!
And yes, I agree that quality of fruit is a huge factor and there are plenty of mutant versions out there. Perhaps fruit is not in its absolute original form that nature intended, but that doesn't mean you should abandon it altogether and eat something completely out of harmony with the human body (my opinion, not stating this as fact). I'd argue that the meat you buy in the grocery store is pretty far from its original form as well. If you were eating your meat raw, as true carnivores do, then maybe we could have a different discussion. True carnivores often go for the parts of the body where there is predigested plant food, and they also drink the animal's blood (provides hydration). They also don't chew the flesh of their prey - they swallow it whole. Do you do any of this?
If you read my posts from 2019 when I tried this diet, you will see that I was all in and a total believer. I got lost in a lot of the confusing science. I took a giant step back when I had some alarming issues a few months in (and sure - maybe you'll say "detox" - but it was enough to make me blank sheet of paper the whole thing and try to look at this simplistically as possible). Ultimately, you have to follow a path that resonates with your heart.
If I deteriorate on my diet, trust me, I will absolutely share. I wasn't exactly expecting to convert many people by posting my update or make many new friends - I know the beliefs on this site and I respect anyone who is fighting to regain their health the natural way. This post is in no way ego-driven - I simply wanted to share in case people were not seeing improvements (which, by a quick scan of the posts, seems to be common) and they wanted to give something else a go.
If you or anyone wants to listen to someone speak much more eloquently about the opinion that we are frugivores... here's a simple 7 minute video:
It was one of the first videos I stumbled across when I went back to the drawing board post VA paranoia, and it was pretty tough for me to argue with just about every point. Trust me, I wanted to be SO WRONG and to hop back on the low VA diet confidently after I had put a decent amount of work in. I don't mean in any way to be a nuisance with these long posts, but simply to implore you to just give it a bit of thought. If you still feel that my opinion is incorrect and meritless, well, then that should make you even more confident in the path you are on!
After having suffered so horribly myself, I just felt the need to share. I won't post any more trying to "prove" anything here as I realize this is not the audience, but I'm happy to answer any specific questions if they arise.
@michele I totally understand your frustration with the absence of a clear and unambiguous picture painted from the science. Unfortunately, the process of establishing unequivocal knowledge is a messy one that takes a long time. Does that mean we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up? No, although it might be healthy to take a break from trying to make sense of it all and just stick to whatever intuitive diet feels good to you at the moment...nobody can be blamed for doing that for the sake of their own sanity.
You and anyone else are free to believe whatever you like, but it is irrational to attempt to support your chosen viewpoint with anything scientific while simultaneously dismissing some of the most foundational theories of science, such as evolution. (In science, a theory that has stood the test of time is equivalent to fact. Gravity is a fact. The laws of thermodynamics are facts. Evolution is a fact.)
The principle of convergent evolution explains how plants or animals that are not closely related can have very similar physiologies in order to make use of the same resources. Humans are indeed more closely related to monkeys than lions, but our digestive physiology is closer to that of a lion than a monkey due to the fact that we evolved to eat similarly to lions. Birds and bats both evolved wings for flight but they are not closely related taxonomically.
Humans are not lions though, and it is a fallacy to say that if we do not eat exactly as a lion does then we are not meat eaters. We have traveled down our own evolutionary path and we are completely dependent on tools for survival. One of those tools is cooking food to make it more easily digestible. While it is possible to be healthy eating raw meat (hunter-gatherer groups like the Inuit do this, and there are many "civilized" people experimenting with their own version of a raw carnivore diet), it is not necessary to eat it raw to maintain health or to prove that we are meat eaters.
As a biologist, I recognize that the biological world only makes sense through an evolutionary lens. Why does a flightless bird have wings if it doesn't fly? Why do humans have a tailbone when we don't have a tail? Natural selection can only operate on what currently exists in a biological entity, and the imperfect results and useless vestigial remnants coming from this process are ironically a good argument for its existence.
Evolutionary biology and modern physiology both have a lot to say about what humans are designed to eat. They unambiguously show that humans are designed to capture and eat meat and animal fat. However, we are also the most adaptable animals on this earth and we are clearly able to subsist on plant foods for some limited length of time, thanks to the use of tools for agriculture, cooking, and fermenting. For how long though? And in what condition?
Your story is valuable and I'm glad you shared it, but there are major errors in your reasoning.
@michele I edited that last post a lot after first submitting it, in an attempt to not be so aggressive. I'm not sure which version you're going to see...sorry if I come off as a jerk, I'm trying hard to be considerate. I just have little tolerance for people slandering or misrepresenting science.
I think the thing that might make the question "what to eat?" confusing is that humans are omnivores.
Being omnivorous allows human life to go on in all sorts of environments and predicaments. Omnivorousness is a survival strategy and probably part of why we've taken over the planet.
I think that although Price might have drawn some wrong conclusions, his work still stands as a testament that people can be pretty darn healthy eating lots of different ways.
While evolution will always cause debate, most agree that micro-evolution happens. Like the different beak sizes of Darwin's finches. IMO, when a population has been eating a certain diet long enough, micro-evolution takes place. That is why I think a person should look to their own family tree's diet.
Another thing that makes "what to eat?" confusing is that the body will try to keep stasis for as long as possible. When it finally reaches the end of being able to keep it up, things go south and fast. It is much easier to stay healthy than to fix disrupted stasis. Often by that time damage has been done. You will then look back and say "it was a great diet, until it wasn't!" 🙂