I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Documenting my experience
I totally agree with you that humans have "survived" by being omnivorous. But surviving is not thriving. And humans are sicker now than we've ever been. As you said, the body can and will fight for a long time, despite being bombarded with all kinds of foreign chemistry (yes, I know we disagree on what types of foods are foreign). But it is truly amazing the beating the human body can withstand before it begins to breakdown!
Thank you for at least acknowledging that evolution will always cause debate, as in, it's not a fact with a capital F. It could be right, it could be wrong. I'm with you on micro-evolution - that one is definitely observable! As far as your family tree viewpoint, I do believe that the family tree plays a role in genetics and how much of the aforementioned beating the body can withstand. But ultimately, if we are not eating our species specific diet (whatever that may be!), the end result will be a weaker and weaker species with each generation of the family tree. Some family trees may collapse quicker than others. 🙂
@are I have no real desire to debate evolution, I was simply making the point that it cannot be stated as fact. We're all entitled to our own beliefs, and to make decisions and live our lives based on these beliefs! I am glad someone is enjoying this discussion, as I figured it was just a matter of time before I was banned from posting on here. 🙂
I'm not sure I'm following your "mental bridge" logic. Shouldn't our natural diet require a "short mental bridge"? Aka instinct? If we need to jump through mental hoops, chemically alter something and add rocks to it (that's all salt is, after all), well, how natural is it really? I feed my dog raw meat, and her reaction to raw meat is incredibly different than mine. I assume everyone here is under the impression that cooking meat somehow makes it better for us, but I struggle with this concept. We are living, electrical beings and I believe we need to ingest living foods to thrive. I would put raw meat in this "living foods" category for those organisms that are true carnivores/omnivores.
And.... perhaps a mango is delicious to humans because it is NOT an animal (walking around, shitting, fornicating, as you so vividly put it :)). And bonus! I don't even need to create a spear or tool to eat it. Just pick, peel and enjoy.
I know you've put in so much time and effort with this low VA diet (I did the same!), but I do hope that at some point, if you continue to see no improvement, you consider a fruit-based diet. Reading your posts took me back to a time that was truly hell - human suffering just breaks my heart. Throw away the pompous "MGD" term for your condition... it's dry eyes, right? Well, a dehydrated, acidic internal terrain (created by pharma drugs, diet, whatever) is going to create side effects of dryness, likely in the most genetically weak areas of the body. Hydrate the body, reverse the side effects? Could it be that simple? My answer is yes. Humans love to complicate things, and I think it's gotten us in lots of trouble!
As for instinct, I've seen toddlers try to eat frogs. a quick search easily found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dsBEkc-yLw Meat was always the fave food of my kids, carbs and fruits and dairy also popular. Veggies... not so much.
What we think of as vegetarian animals usually aren't 100%. I've seen a video of a deer eating a baby bird. Cows eat insects and slugs every day in the field.
I've met several people who actually *hate* fruit--they like sweets but hate fruit. Often these were people of northern stock. (of course, on this very thread we have people who don't like meat as well). I have a pretty low desire for fruit, i like a small amount of it. I can't imagine eating a whole meal of it. I really like meat.
Have you ever seen the mermaid theory of humanity? It's quite interesting. Lots of hand-to-mouth food on a beach. Coconuts, clams, crabs, fish, small birds, kelp. Making fires to warm up after diving, women combing the hair on rocks , singing loudly to increase lung capacity. There are still people who live like this in Asia.
I think that agriculturalism might be a lot older than people think, though. Not much of a leap of thought for those beach dwellers to realize they can grow cray fish in a confined pond, or keep birds in their shack, plant coconut trees where they would be more convenient, (and carry the seeds to their new camp), and fence in some deer...
I think that if you dropped an adult human into any eco system he would be smart enough to watch the other animals and see what they ate! And this would include animals, eggs, and even milk.
Well put @lil-chick I saw with my own eyes a pigeon eat a whole chicken thigh.
Hopefully Not While the Chicken Was Still Using It!
I think that my genetic stock was very strong until the first baby formula entered the scene. I think this first baby formula was very deficient, and caused a blip in nutrition that has worked it's way down the tree. That's my guess. I don't think my ancestors had a wrong base diet. But the american diet might have become more and more wrong as well, including bad things like VA supplement being put into milk, vitamin pills and animal feeds.
I think the point that the frutarian diet is low fat (perhaps causing carotenes to not be absorbed) was extremely interesting.
And I think people should follow their tastes and if a person has a high desire to eat fruit, maybe they do need something in it.
@lil-chick Cute video, although that baby is not eating the frog, just putting it in his mouth. Probably teething. Didn't see him take a bite or swallow. My nephew is about the same age, and he puts just about everything in his mouth, with no intention of eating it!
Totally agree that animals may diverge from their natural diet at times or out of necessity. But it's very different when a cow happens to ingest an insect or slug while eating grass, which is extremely tiny compared to its own size/mass, versus a cow hunting an animal and eating it.
I'm very limited in the vegetables I eat - fruit is the staple of my diet, and the only vegetables I do eat are actually fruits (cucumber, avocados, peppers, zucchini) plus some leafy greens. There's definitely a reason kids hate broccoli - I don't believe humans should be eating it. As for meat, dairy, and carbs with kids... well yes, they're all processed and usually highly salted and/or seasoned, masking the natural raw taste. When you start modifying foods, of course you have the potential to create something that "tastes" good. Doesn't mean it's good for you.
I do believe our taste buds have been pretty much destroyed by all of the additives we use. Add to this the fact that the quality of the majority of fruit, especially in northern climates and shipped from who knows where, just plain sucks. So yes, I see why you say you couldn't imagine eating a meal of just fruit. But try a big plate of mangoes fresh off a tree in Costa Rica, and I bet you'd sing a different tune. 🙂
@are
I guess I misunderstood your "mental bridge" logic - I didn't necessarily mean the effort required to obtain the food was easy. I am certain that if I lived in the jungle, there would be times when I had to climb an enormous tree to pick a mango. But once obtained, it was ready (and easy) for me to eat and enjoy. And if I was hungry, I'd still salivate looking up at that mango in the tree.
Animals work for a living too - they have to work to find food. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard. Sometimes they have to eat whatever they can get so they don't starve to death. As far as your alpine goat example, you can't say that they aren't drooling as they climb the dangerous mountain. Are you a goat? Something clearly drives them to climb a mountain for salt, and I'd venture to say that's some sort of instinct that we don't have and therefore can't identify with. Cows love the taste of grass and I can't understand that, but hey, I'm not a cow.
I completely understand you sticking with the diet and I whole-heartedly wish for you to see improvements and be out of pain. I was pretty active on some Accutane side effect groups a while back, and pointed a few open-minded people in the direction of a fruit-based diet. Each and every one has seen improvement (including one who also has MGD). I guess I felt it my duty to share the message with others, but I am in no means harassing you and trying to force anything upon you or anyone else. 🙂 I'm simply a curious person and I like to learn and debate, so revisiting this site was interesting for me. I don't ever want to get stuck in a box, so I enjoy chatting with others who don't share the same viewpoint. I appreciate everyone who has been so kind as to engage without taking offense to my opinion!