I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Please
Login to create posts and topics.
Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
PreviousPage 36 of 76Next Quote from
tim on March 11, 2023, 7:21 am
@andrew-b
Can you please explain your ideas about the pathogenesis of increased bile flow? How it causes an issue?
@andrew-b
Can you please explain your ideas about the pathogenesis of increased bile flow? How it causes an issue?
Andrew B has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Andrew B on March 11, 2023, 7:54 am
@tim-2 I think the body does the best it can at any given moment. It seems like extra choline leading to phosphatidylcholine (PC) and even that day or day after eating eggs and bile flow increases. Yet I've not fully repaired my leaky gut or permeability problems elsewhere in the system. So the body decides to allow passage of some toxins in the bile that's not going to kill me. Yet even the bile is not fully made safe with phospholipids nor is the intestinal barrier. As these improve (perhaps zonulin is the marker) with more choline even more toxins can go in the bile yet still an amount leaks into the body. Some people I think have blocks or very sludgy bile and this initial surge from PC can go back the way as well. Valves and sphincters can cause problems too.
Choline is repairing cell membranes through the PC. That's how the choline fixes the leakiness (eventually). There was a good thread on that somewhere. PC emulsifies the bile and that reduces viscosity (opposition to flow). Initially the opposition will cause problems. It keeps getting better. Also less damage to cells as passing through so time to repair the intestinal barrier and less damage to it (probably).
PC vital. Mucosal protection by PC. https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/342729
@tim-2 I think the body does the best it can at any given moment. It seems like extra choline leading to phosphatidylcholine (PC) and even that day or day after eating eggs and bile flow increases. Yet I've not fully repaired my leaky gut or permeability problems elsewhere in the system. So the body decides to allow passage of some toxins in the bile that's not going to kill me. Yet even the bile is not fully made safe with phospholipids nor is the intestinal barrier. As these improve (perhaps zonulin is the marker) with more choline even more toxins can go in the bile yet still an amount leaks into the body. Some people I think have blocks or very sludgy bile and this initial surge from PC can go back the way as well. Valves and sphincters can cause problems too.
Choline is repairing cell membranes through the PC. That's how the choline fixes the leakiness (eventually). There was a good thread on that somewhere. PC emulsifies the bile and that reduces viscosity (opposition to flow). Initially the opposition will cause problems. It keeps getting better. Also less damage to cells as passing through so time to repair the intestinal barrier and less damage to it (probably).
PC vital. Mucosal protection by PC. https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/342729
Jenny, tim and Navn have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on March 11, 2023, 9:05 am
Maybe there could be also list of things that can deplete choline?
Maybe there could be also list of things that can deplete choline?
Andrew B and Inger have reacted to this post.
Quote from
tim on March 11, 2023, 9:16 am
@andrew-b
Yep. As bile increases SIBO will be reduced which will improve leaky gut. As retinoic acid levels drop and choline levels increase leaky gut will also improve. As gut flora normalizes bile deconjugation before the colon will slow down allowing bile based toxins to be excreted.
@andrew-b
Yep. As bile increases SIBO will be reduced which will improve leaky gut. As retinoic acid levels drop and choline levels increase leaky gut will also improve. As gut flora normalizes bile deconjugation before the colon will slow down allowing bile based toxins to be excreted.
Jenny, Rachel and Andrew B have reacted to this post.
Jenny, Rachel and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
JennyRachelNavnHermesAndrew B
Quote from
Andrew B on March 11, 2023, 9:23 am
@tim-2 yes, this appeared to happen for me as I increased the eggs to 3-4 a day. I wouldnt say I had a diagnosed SIBO problem but it definitely appears like slight bloating reduced for me. And now I'm able to increase fibre from a variety of foods it does appear like more toxins are being excreted. I'll be 100% sure when the slight eczema goes away.
@tim-2 yes, this appeared to happen for me as I increased the eggs to 3-4 a day. I wouldnt say I had a diagnosed SIBO problem but it definitely appears like slight bloating reduced for me. And now I'm able to increase fibre from a variety of foods it does appear like more toxins are being excreted. I'll be 100% sure when the slight eczema goes away.
Jenny, tim and 2 other users have reacted to this post.
Jenny, puddleduck and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleducktimNavnAndrew B
Quote from
Andrew B on March 11, 2023, 9:50 am
@jiri List of things depleting choline. Choline background: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/
- Pregnancy. High demand for choline in pregnancy.
- Excessive alcohol - difficult to define precisely.
- Excessive exercising - marathon running for example does reduce choline at least temporarily.
- Stress and anxiety. Nervous problems.
- Lack of folate and B12 tend to overdo the choline pathway. Choline becomes the primary methyl donor.
- Menopause and reduction of estrogen tends to affect women's ability to make choline endogenously (in the body).
- Toxicity and Vitamin A excess tend to deplete it. Vitamin A fairly certainly reduces folate and B12 and that could deplete choline or more directly choline may be needed to deal with Vitamin A metabolites (there is a patent for this). Choline needed to safely detox heavy metals (speculative).
- Betaine (if low) will deplete choline. So not having a high betaine food source like quinoa, beetroot or grains may cause a reduction in choline from the conversion to betaine.
- Celiac disease depletes choline. Does seem likely gluten intolerance does too. Other food intolerances possibly.
- High fibre may damage the intestinal barrier (speculative). Or certain types of fibre.
- High fat may increase the need for choline in fat digestion and absorption.
- Medicinal drugs. Perhaps need to be more specific. Anticholinergics. Cholinesterase inhibitors might have a knock on effect.
- Vegan diet without eggs raises the possibility.
- Lack of protein probably increases the likelihood as vegetables and fruit are lower in choline. Meat, eggs, nuts and seeds being highest sources.
@jiri List of things depleting choline. Choline background: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Choline-HealthProfessional/
- Pregnancy. High demand for choline in pregnancy.
- Excessive alcohol - difficult to define precisely.
- Excessive exercising - marathon running for example does reduce choline at least temporarily.
- Stress and anxiety. Nervous problems.
- Lack of folate and B12 tend to overdo the choline pathway. Choline becomes the primary methyl donor.
- Menopause and reduction of estrogen tends to affect women's ability to make choline endogenously (in the body).
- Toxicity and Vitamin A excess tend to deplete it. Vitamin A fairly certainly reduces folate and B12 and that could deplete choline or more directly choline may be needed to deal with Vitamin A metabolites (there is a patent for this). Choline needed to safely detox heavy metals (speculative).
- Betaine (if low) will deplete choline. So not having a high betaine food source like quinoa, beetroot or grains may cause a reduction in choline from the conversion to betaine.
- Celiac disease depletes choline. Does seem likely gluten intolerance does too. Other food intolerances possibly.
- High fibre may damage the intestinal barrier (speculative). Or certain types of fibre.
- High fat may increase the need for choline in fat digestion and absorption.
- Medicinal drugs. Perhaps need to be more specific. Anticholinergics. Cholinesterase inhibitors might have a knock on effect.
- Vegan diet without eggs raises the possibility.
- Lack of protein probably increases the likelihood as vegetables and fruit are lower in choline. Meat, eggs, nuts and seeds being highest sources.
Jenny, puddleduck and 8 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleducktimRachelAudreyHermesArminAlekseyViktor2Fabio
Quote from
Jenny on March 11, 2023, 9:58 am
@tim-2 that interview is a favourite of mine. I’ve learnt a lot from listening to Chris Shade. He knows what he’s talking about imo. He probably saved my life. After getting such terrible liver results in 2020 and being told ‘detox is tough’ I extended my research and found Dr Shade. I added back in eggs pronto! But not enough until Andrew B started reporting his experiments. He can be credited with really making me see how important this is.
@andrew-b great list. I’d add in genetics. Those with poor PEMT genetics don’t get the advantages of oestrogen induced choline production. But then I always find the genetic angle the most interesting!
@tim-2 that interview is a favourite of mine. I’ve learnt a lot from listening to Chris Shade. He knows what he’s talking about imo. He probably saved my life. After getting such terrible liver results in 2020 and being told ‘detox is tough’ I extended my research and found Dr Shade. I added back in eggs pronto! But not enough until Andrew B started reporting his experiments. He can be credited with really making me see how important this is.
@andrew-b great list. I’d add in genetics. Those with poor PEMT genetics don’t get the advantages of oestrogen induced choline production. But then I always find the genetic angle the most interesting!
tim, Rachel and 5 other users have reacted to this post.
timRachelAudreyNavnArminAndrew BFabio
Quote from
Rachel on March 12, 2023, 4:13 am
Quote from
tim on March 11, 2023, 9:22 am
SIBO and Detoxification with Dr Chris Shade
Thanks for linking to this Tim. I'm part way through listening and it's great information. He is describing exactly the difficulties I'm experiencing. I'm going to be listening and reading much more of his stuff as I think he will be able to lay out the best way for me to navigate this detox nightmare I find myself in.
@jaj I've also seen you recommending his material for quite a while now. Thanks to you also.
Quote from
tim on March 11, 2023, 9:22 am
SIBO and Detoxification with Dr Chris Shade
Thanks for linking to this Tim. I'm part way through listening and it's great information. He is describing exactly the difficulties I'm experiencing. I'm going to be listening and reading much more of his stuff as I think he will be able to lay out the best way for me to navigate this detox nightmare I find myself in.
@jaj I've also seen you recommending his material for quite a while now. Thanks to you also.
Jenny, puddleduck and 4 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleducktimAudreyNavnAndrew B
PreviousPage 36 of 76Next Like this:
Like Loading...
