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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
Quote from
ggenereux on December 3, 2022, 10:32 am
Hi @andrew-b,
Just adding some more evidence for choline being beneficial.
In this patent they are using choline and other factors as a "rescue agent" against poisoning from RA.
Here's the patent pdf.
Hi @andrew-b,
Just adding some more evidence for choline being beneficial.
In this patent they are using choline and other factors as a "rescue agent" against poisoning from RA.
Here's the patent pdf.
Jenny, puddleduck and 10 other users have reacted to this post.
JennypuddleduckJanelle525Audreysaraleah11NavnHermesRetinoiconJavierDeleted userAndrew BFabio
Quote from
Audrey on December 4, 2022, 5:09 am
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
Andrew B and Fabio have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Jiří on December 4, 2022, 5:15 am
Quote from
Audrey on December 4, 2022, 5:09 am
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
I would try sunflower lecithin to confirm that it's detox from choline and not added retinol from yolks..
Quote from
Audrey on December 4, 2022, 5:09 am
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
I would try sunflower lecithin to confirm that it's detox from choline and not added retinol from yolks..
Quote from
Andrew B on December 4, 2022, 5:50 am
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
@audrey As discussed last week I worked to slow it down with other things. Removing extra zinc, reducing fibre, keeping fat moderate, increasing some carbs like red potatoes and sourdough bread. It did take a few weeks to figure it all out and create the slowing down. I even reduced beef mince (zinc) and increased chicken to slow it down. So I would give it time but going back to 1 egg might be okay while you do that. I've gone back and forward with the numbers a few times. I do generally feel the leakiness reduces with an egg at the meal. After doing this for 7 months it's not the retinol from the yolks causing detox symptoms it's the eggs improving the detox in my opinion.
I feel that since adding 2 eggs in each day that I am definitely detoxing again, almost so that I think I need to cut back to just one or eat them every other day!
@audrey As discussed last week I worked to slow it down with other things. Removing extra zinc, reducing fibre, keeping fat moderate, increasing some carbs like red potatoes and sourdough bread. It did take a few weeks to figure it all out and create the slowing down. I even reduced beef mince (zinc) and increased chicken to slow it down. So I would give it time but going back to 1 egg might be okay while you do that. I've gone back and forward with the numbers a few times. I do generally feel the leakiness reduces with an egg at the meal. After doing this for 7 months it's not the retinol from the yolks causing detox symptoms it's the eggs improving the detox in my opinion.
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AudreyNavnRetinoiconJavierDeleted user
Quote from
Audrey on December 4, 2022, 10:46 am
Thanks @andrew-b. Yes, I've been doing these things that you've suggested and I suspect I just haven't figured out the proper amount of fat intake, so I will keep a better eye on this. I also have what feels like blood sugar issues now too, something I have never really experienced before, unless it is part of anxiety from detoxing too quickly? I can't seem to get magnesium out of my mind because my head feels like garbage (migraine like headaches) and I thought maybe mag can help with blood sugar too. I seem to be in some sort of loop because when I take mag spray I also don't feel great, more aches and eye twitches, worse headache. But I have been sleeping great, great energy and mood... I will try less fat.
Thanks @andrew-b. Yes, I've been doing these things that you've suggested and I suspect I just haven't figured out the proper amount of fat intake, so I will keep a better eye on this. I also have what feels like blood sugar issues now too, something I have never really experienced before, unless it is part of anxiety from detoxing too quickly? I can't seem to get magnesium out of my mind because my head feels like garbage (migraine like headaches) and I thought maybe mag can help with blood sugar too. I seem to be in some sort of loop because when I take mag spray I also don't feel great, more aches and eye twitches, worse headache. But I have been sleeping great, great energy and mood... I will try less fat.
Navn, Hermes and Andrew B have reacted to this post.
@ggenereux2014 I'm trying to understand the chart you showed. Is it saying that the most effective way of getting rid of VA poisoning is with L-methionine, followed by betaine and choline?
Also, is betaine usually converted to choline if the body needs it? Or do I have that backwards?
@ggenereux2014 I'm trying to understand the chart you showed. Is it saying that the most effective way of getting rid of VA poisoning is with L-methionine, followed by betaine and choline?
Also, is betaine usually converted to choline if the body needs it? Or do I have that backwards?
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Quote from
ggenereux on December 5, 2022, 3:45 pm
Hi @kathy55wood,
I think the chart is showing what the effectiveness of these compounds in extending the life of the animals is: L-methionine, followed by betaine and then choline (least effective).
But, it is not really about getting rid if VA poisoning, rather gauging the effectiveness of these substances in protecting from direct Retinoic Acid poisoning.
In Figure 2 of their patent, they show that combining these substance has an additive protective effect.
RE: is betaine usually converted to choline if the body needs it?
Sorry, I don't know.
But, clearly back in 1987 these researchers knew that 13-trans retinoic acid was indeed a serious poison.
Hi @kathy55wood,
I think the chart is showing what the effectiveness of these compounds in extending the life of the animals is: L-methionine, followed by betaine and then choline (least effective).
But, it is not really about getting rid if VA poisoning, rather gauging the effectiveness of these substances in protecting from direct Retinoic Acid poisoning.
In Figure 2 of their patent, they show that combining these substance has an additive protective effect.
RE: is betaine usually converted to choline if the body needs it?
Sorry, I don't know.
But, clearly back in 1987 these researchers knew that 13-trans retinoic acid was indeed a serious poison.
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JennypuddleduckJanelle525saraleah11kathy55woodRetinoiconPaolaMichael2JavierDeleted userAndrew B
Quote from
Andrew B on December 6, 2022, 3:18 am
@kathy55wood In other studies the betaine and choline and usually methionine work synergistically for better results. Choline is converted to betaine. Therefore, it's best to eat a high betaine source like quinoa, organic spelt/wheat or beetroot to save your choline. Beef and bison contain a small amount of betaine 14-20 mgs per 100 grams in case we wonder where @ggenereux2014 got some betaine. Probably best to get 100 mgs of betaine per day.
@kathy55wood In other studies the betaine and choline and usually methionine work synergistically for better results. Choline is converted to betaine. Therefore, it's best to eat a high betaine source like quinoa, organic spelt/wheat or beetroot to save your choline. Beef and bison contain a small amount of betaine 14-20 mgs per 100 grams in case we wonder where @ggenereux2014 got some betaine. Probably best to get 100 mgs of betaine per day.
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JennyNavnHermeskathy55wood
Quote from
ggenereux on December 6, 2022, 9:48 am
Hi @andrew-b,
Do you have any thoughts on beetroots being safer than eggs?
Hi @andrew-b,
Do you have any thoughts on beetroots being safer than eggs?
puddleduck, Hermes and 3 other users have reacted to this post.
puddleduckHermeskathy55woodJavierAndrew B
Quote from
Andrew B on December 6, 2022, 11:14 am
@ggenereux2014 We need much more choline than betaine to improve the detox. We need at least 425-550 mgs per day for choline. Some people might be low at the start of detox and the detox may increase our need for more. Some people like me might need double the adequate intake of choline to replenish stores. About 100 mgs of betaine per day seems sufficient in combination synergistically with the higher level of choline to restore the liver to health. Choline can also convert to betaine so the emphasis is on choline. Fish eggs, beef hearts and eggs being the best sources. Beetroot is quite high in oxalic acid so might not be suitable for everybody and the pigment might be a small issue therefore eating 100 grams a day in season may be sufficient to help the liver and get plenty of betaine whereas it has very little choline. Eggs in a number of senses are much safer than beetroot because the choline and sphingomyelin are so high per 100 grams and the choline and sphingomyelin help protect us from the toxicity of the bile salts. The choline also helps repair the digestive system, improve fat digestion and reduce the leakiness in the enterohepatic circulation. The amount of Vitamin A in eggs of 300 IUs is of little consequence when per 100 mgs of choline we may be detoxing 3,000 IUs of Vitamin A at a guess when liver working well.
@ggenereux2014 We need much more choline than betaine to improve the detox. We need at least 425-550 mgs per day for choline. Some people might be low at the start of detox and the detox may increase our need for more. Some people like me might need double the adequate intake of choline to replenish stores. About 100 mgs of betaine per day seems sufficient in combination synergistically with the higher level of choline to restore the liver to health. Choline can also convert to betaine so the emphasis is on choline. Fish eggs, beef hearts and eggs being the best sources. Beetroot is quite high in oxalic acid so might not be suitable for everybody and the pigment might be a small issue therefore eating 100 grams a day in season may be sufficient to help the liver and get plenty of betaine whereas it has very little choline. Eggs in a number of senses are much safer than beetroot because the choline and sphingomyelin are so high per 100 grams and the choline and sphingomyelin help protect us from the toxicity of the bile salts. The choline also helps repair the digestive system, improve fat digestion and reduce the leakiness in the enterohepatic circulation. The amount of Vitamin A in eggs of 300 IUs is of little consequence when per 100 mgs of choline we may be detoxing 3,000 IUs of Vitamin A at a guess when liver working well.
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ggenereuxJennypuddleduckNavnHermeskathy55woodRetinoiconJavierDeleted userFabio
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