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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
PreviousPage 46 of 76Next Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 2:06 pm
@salt Those are legitimate concerns I went into the egg experiment with, but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency? Not in the sense that I doubt it's possible, but in that if it's true that would mean my body has a much more difficult time detoxing vA than the average body, and I would like to know what the potential reasons for that might be. I'll include some screenshots of my vA intake over time to illustrate that it's not that high, though it is slightly increased since I started eggs since I still consume a similar amount of butter as I did before starting eggs. The spikes on the graph generally represent days that I'm traveling and have limited food options, especially when it comes to work trips. To explain the really high spike at the beginning, I've been on the vA detox journey for less than a year so far, so that represents the beginning. The screenshots start at an overview of a year and then zoom in on the last 3 months and 8 weeks, respectively.
@salt Those are legitimate concerns I went into the egg experiment with, but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency? Not in the sense that I doubt it's possible, but in that if it's true that would mean my body has a much more difficult time detoxing vA than the average body, and I would like to know what the potential reasons for that might be. I'll include some screenshots of my vA intake over time to illustrate that it's not that high, though it is slightly increased since I started eggs since I still consume a similar amount of butter as I did before starting eggs. The spikes on the graph generally represent days that I'm traveling and have limited food options, especially when it comes to work trips. To explain the really high spike at the beginning, I've been on the vA detox journey for less than a year so far, so that represents the beginning. The screenshots start at an overview of a year and then zoom in on the last 3 months and 8 weeks, respectively.
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Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 2:20 pm
@andrew-b Thanks for those tips. How do you think I could tell the difference between too strong of detox vs. accumulating more vA vs. other potential issues on the vA detox journey? I'm not completely sure which is happening when. I know when I have strong detox symptoms and I get nauseous and poop a lot and then feel better, but at other times, things might be more subtle and hard to tell the difference. It seems that most recently I've had a mixture of symptoms which could be interpreted in different ways. From the ones I mentioned earlier, the feeling better after pooping seems to point to increased detox, but the slow build to more depression/anxiety, less libido, poorer quality sleep, hot flashes or just feeling stressed, etc. could point to increased toxicity. Other things like less swelling seems like it could be due to either having less toxins total or could be due to the toxins being stored in the liver and therefore less in the other tissues. I had a similar downward trend last year before I discovered vA toxicity theory, but it was much more intense and came with a lot more liver pain. So far it hasn't repeated the same this year, but I want to figure out what's going on so I could tweak my approach and get things going better before it gets anywhere near as bad as last year.
@andrew-b Thanks for those tips. How do you think I could tell the difference between too strong of detox vs. accumulating more vA vs. other potential issues on the vA detox journey? I'm not completely sure which is happening when. I know when I have strong detox symptoms and I get nauseous and poop a lot and then feel better, but at other times, things might be more subtle and hard to tell the difference. It seems that most recently I've had a mixture of symptoms which could be interpreted in different ways. From the ones I mentioned earlier, the feeling better after pooping seems to point to increased detox, but the slow build to more depression/anxiety, less libido, poorer quality sleep, hot flashes or just feeling stressed, etc. could point to increased toxicity. Other things like less swelling seems like it could be due to either having less toxins total or could be due to the toxins being stored in the liver and therefore less in the other tissues. I had a similar downward trend last year before I discovered vA toxicity theory, but it was much more intense and came with a lot more liver pain. So far it hasn't repeated the same this year, but I want to figure out what's going on so I could tweak my approach and get things going better before it gets anywhere near as bad as last year.
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Tobias on May 4, 2023, 2:28 pm
@aleksey There are other problems with eggs than just the raw retinol content. Another issue is the cholecalciferol and more importantly, high amounts of xanthophyll which bioaccumulates in the macula and subsequently around the brain.
@aleksey There are other problems with eggs than just the raw retinol content. Another issue is the cholecalciferol and more importantly, high amounts of xanthophyll which bioaccumulates in the macula and subsequently around the brain.
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Hermes on May 4, 2023, 2:58 pm
@tobias
Thank you for your concern. What are the implications of what you're saying? I'm not really following.
@aleksey
Great observations, very well put your struggle to interpret symptoms correctly.
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 2:20 pm
@andrew-b Thanks for those tips. How do you think I could tell the difference between too strong of detox vs. accumulating more vA vs. other potential issues on the vA detox journey? I'm not completely sure which is happening when. I know when I have strong detox symptoms and I get nauseous and poop a lot and then feel better, but at other times, things might be more subtle and hard to tell the difference. It seems that most recently I've had a mixture of symptoms which could be interpreted in different ways. From the ones I mentioned earlier, the feeling better after pooping seems to point to increased detox, but the slow build to more depression/anxiety, less libido, poorer quality sleep, hot flashes or just feeling stressed, etc. could point to increased toxicity. Other things like less swelling seems like it could be due to either having less toxins total or could be due to the toxins being stored in the liver and therefore less in the other tissues. I had a similar downward trend last year before I discovered vA toxicity theory, but it was much more intense and came with a lot more liver pain. So far it hasn't repeated the same this year, but I want to figure out what's going on so I could tweak my approach and get things going better before it gets anywhere near as bad as last year.
Thank you for your concern. What are the implications of what you're saying? I'm not really following.
Great observations, very well put your struggle to interpret symptoms correctly.
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 2:20 pm
@andrew-b Thanks for those tips. How do you think I could tell the difference between too strong of detox vs. accumulating more vA vs. other potential issues on the vA detox journey? I'm not completely sure which is happening when. I know when I have strong detox symptoms and I get nauseous and poop a lot and then feel better, but at other times, things might be more subtle and hard to tell the difference. It seems that most recently I've had a mixture of symptoms which could be interpreted in different ways. From the ones I mentioned earlier, the feeling better after pooping seems to point to increased detox, but the slow build to more depression/anxiety, less libido, poorer quality sleep, hot flashes or just feeling stressed, etc. could point to increased toxicity. Other things like less swelling seems like it could be due to either having less toxins total or could be due to the toxins being stored in the liver and therefore less in the other tissues. I had a similar downward trend last year before I discovered vA toxicity theory, but it was much more intense and came with a lot more liver pain. So far it hasn't repeated the same this year, but I want to figure out what's going on so I could tweak my approach and get things going better before it gets anywhere near as bad as last year.
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Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 3:08 pm
Quote from
Tobias on May 4, 2023, 2:28 pm
@aleksey There are other problems with eggs than just the raw retinol content. Another issue is the cholecalciferol and more importantly, high amounts of xanthophyll which bioaccumulates in the macula and subsequently around the brain.
I suspect I have issues converting and detoxing carotenoids and similar compounds as well as retinoids. What could be the reason for that? I’d very much like to solve this problem so that I can eat a varied diet. I tried Dr. Smith’s approach and it helped for a good while, but it stalled out a couple months ago and I slowly started getting worse again. I imagine trying to eat as close as possible to a zero vA diet is a sure fire way to get some nutrient deficiencies. I think the amount of retinol and carotenoids I consume is many times lower than what a healthy person should be able to handle, so I’d like to figure out some sort of map to get to a state where I can handle it.
Quote from
Tobias on May 4, 2023, 2:28 pm
@aleksey There are other problems with eggs than just the raw retinol content. Another issue is the cholecalciferol and more importantly, high amounts of xanthophyll which bioaccumulates in the macula and subsequently around the brain.
I suspect I have issues converting and detoxing carotenoids and similar compounds as well as retinoids. What could be the reason for that? I’d very much like to solve this problem so that I can eat a varied diet. I tried Dr. Smith’s approach and it helped for a good while, but it stalled out a couple months ago and I slowly started getting worse again. I imagine trying to eat as close as possible to a zero vA diet is a sure fire way to get some nutrient deficiencies. I think the amount of retinol and carotenoids I consume is many times lower than what a healthy person should be able to handle, so I’d like to figure out some sort of map to get to a state where I can handle it.
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puddleduckHermesDeleted userAndrew BFabio
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
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puddleduckAudreyAndrew BFabio
Quote from
Tobias on May 4, 2023, 4:24 pm
@christian The implications are that the eyes are the preferred method of eliminating photosensitizing phytotoxins, which they can only do in a limited capacity. I'm not eating eggs, but if I did, I'd look into ways to minimize intake of lutein, zeaxanthin and capsaicin and try to mitigate their damage as much as possible.
@aleksey I will drop by your log tomorrow, I don't want to give suggestions without knowing your physiology.
@christian The implications are that the eyes are the preferred method of eliminating photosensitizing phytotoxins, which they can only do in a limited capacity. I'm not eating eggs, but if I did, I'd look into ways to minimize intake of lutein, zeaxanthin and capsaicin and try to mitigate their damage as much as possible.
@aleksey I will drop by your log tomorrow, I don't want to give suggestions without knowing your physiology.
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puddleduckOuraniaHermesAleksey
Quote from
Tommy on May 4, 2023, 4:26 pm
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
You don’t know that for sure though, how can you make that statement?
Can we at least wait for one experimenter to post serum levels over time before coming to conclusions.
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
You don’t know that for sure though, how can you make that statement?
Can we at least wait for one experimenter to post serum levels over time before coming to conclusions.
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Quote from
Chris on May 4, 2023, 5:40 pm
I happen to catch Dr. Smith's latest podcast on youtube today and he went off on eggs and choline again. It's hard to know who to trust here honestly. He said that basically if you have choline deficiency it's not that you're not eating enough, it's that your body is making enough choline because of (likely) folate deficiency. He said that eating too much choline from eggs will have long-term negative effects on the body and used his favorite phrase, 'it won't end well'.
I happen to catch Dr. Smith's latest podcast on youtube today and he went off on eggs and choline again. It's hard to know who to trust here honestly. He said that basically if you have choline deficiency it's not that you're not eating enough, it's that your body is making enough choline because of (likely) folate deficiency. He said that eating too much choline from eggs will have long-term negative effects on the body and used his favorite phrase, 'it won't end well'.
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Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 7:07 pm
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
I believe in the context we were discussing, the deficiency would refer to something other than vA, which could be responsible for the slow deterioration in how I'm feeling. So my question was why would 2 eggs per day contribute to either vA buildup or deficiency of another nutrient?
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
I believe in the context we were discussing, the deficiency would refer to something other than vA, which could be responsible for the slow deterioration in how I'm feeling. So my question was why would 2 eggs per day contribute to either vA buildup or deficiency of another nutrient?
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puddleduckAudreyHermesDeleted userAndrew B
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