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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
Quote from Chris on May 4, 2023, 5:40 pmI happen to catch Dr. Smith's latest podcast on youtube today and he went off on eggs and choline again. It's hard to know who to trust here honestly. He said that basically if you have choline deficiency it's not that you're not eating enough, it's that your body is making enough choline because of (likely) folate deficiency. He said that eating too much choline from eggs will have long-term negative effects on the body and used his favorite phrase, 'it won't end well'.
Thanks for the heads up. We have a professional working with us now and she has clinical proof from her patients that eggs help fatty liver. That's what she does and she knows her pathways. Dr S keeps showing his ignorance. If he'd read the studies I posted originally then he might have figured it out by now. There's 2 pathways for choline. He's talking about the salvage pathway, the CDP-choline pathway. The other pathway is the methylation pathway where phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) gets methylated by PEMT. @meredith reckons it gets affected by Vitamin A toxicity. The PEMT pathway affects digestion so you dont necessarily solve constipation by the salvage pathway.
I ate plenty of beans for folate (so did others) it never solved the issues extra choline is now doing for us. Dr S likes his antidotes but doesnt seem to understand the scientific concept of choline replenishment when you need higher amounts of choline in the short term to repair parts of the body which have been broken down to get choline. Steven Zeisel has a paper or two on this. It's going great for me 1 year now I'm on half the vitamin A of the average for the US population. How is it going to end badly ? We all have to die. I'm happy with much better health now in the intervening period.
@christian Please do not be surprised if serum retinol levels go up in the short term. A member with low serum retinol tested immediately after eggs and a few months later and serum retinol went up immediately and continued to be moderate. And the member is reporting much better health from a difficult problem. Someone with low serum retinol and low cholesterol might expect better bile flow to increase triglycerides and LDL in the short term. As time goes on you might expect these numbers to fall. Bilirubin and liver enzymes tend to fall quickest. Zero serum retinol doesnt always mean optimal health. It's not my goal. I'd rather I had the lowest possible Vitamin A in my liver.
Quote from Andrew B on May 5, 2023, 8:07 am@christian Please do not be surprised if serum retinol levels go up in the short term. A member with low serum retinol tested immediately after eggs and a few months later and serum retinol went up immediately and continued to be moderate. And the member is reporting much better health from a difficult problem. Someone with low serum retinol and low cholesterol might expect better bile flow to increase triglycerides and LDL in the short term. As time goes on you might expect these numbers to fall. Bilirubin and liver enzymes tend to fall quickest. Zero serum retinol doesnt always mean optimal health. It's not my goal. I'd rather I had the lowest possible Vitamin A in my liver.
Is there a single person following your advice who has lowered their serum retinol yet? It's now been 6 months since you made this thread so I would expect such results to start coming in soon, if your theory actually works. Short term serum retinol increases are fine and expected, but long term serum retinol increases are not fine.
moved post to Antidote thread as more relevant to that topic...
Quote from salt on May 5, 2023, 5:32 amQuote from Woodcutting on May 5, 2023, 5:21 am@salt I get moody and become an insomniac when I eat VA
your diet has lots of hidden VA then
always moody and insulting people
absolutely hilarious that you got so butthurt over being called an egghead that you had to make an alt account and follow me around
oh how you do everywhere?
fly in threads just to call people eggheads and leave again without saying anything useful or adding to discussion
beacon of inspiration you are
Somehow I expected the super egger to become a super man after his 30 day trial. So, no magic bullet. But wow, creatine almost cut in half? Not bad. Thanks for posting puddleduck! 🙂
@andrew-b Did you make a list of foods recommended to balance nutrition and fix choline and other deficiencies? (e.g. quinoa, macadamia, avocado, etc...) I've read your posts and for sure you know much more than enough to write a book on the topic. It would be great if there was available a small guide with those principles so those who decide to follow them can report here.
Thanks @javier. There is a couple of main comments in this thread with foods and frequency. People can vary it the way they see fit. A Best Practices Diet - Page 9 - Discussion | Ideas, Concepts, and Observations (ggenereux.blog)
There is a plan to list best foods for each nutrient eg B1 is important. Oats etc. I havent got round to it yet. Then it would be possible to put everything together in a guide.
EDIT: I did start the process with these important ones.