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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
PreviousPage 48 of 76Next Quote from
Aleksey on May 5, 2023, 5:10 am
Quote from
PJ on May 4, 2023, 9:25 pm
@aleksey
I do not mean to harp on about EFA's, but those negatives that you listed (worse sleep, lower libido, a bit of fat gain, and sometimes a tendency towards depressive or anxious mood) are the exact areas I have seen improvements in, with the exception of weight gain. I am an under type and have a really hard time gaining weight...My sleep is sooo much deeper.
Well, to be fair, my sleep, libido, mood, and perceived stress levels have fluctuated significantly since my health crash in 2020. Going low vA helped but not 100% consistently. That’s why I’m not sure if the eggs are to blame and even if they are, if the mechanism is simply that I’m under more stress with more intense detox or if it’s making the overall situation worse. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Whether I need to be patient as things get better in a somewhat messy way or if I need to tweak something I’m doing in order to avoid damage.
Also, I’ve been an under type myself for almost my entire life. I’m a 5’6” guy who has been 110-125 lb since I reached my full height. The times I got sick in 2018 and 2020 I dipped below 100 lb. One of the things I found that helped me feel better after 2020 was eating a lot more after learning about Ray Peat. In the course of about a year I more than doubled my caloric intake and I did gain weight (both muscle and fat). Right now my weight has mostly stabilized at around 160 lb.
Quote from
PJ on May 4, 2023, 9:25 pm
@aleksey
I do not mean to harp on about EFA's, but those negatives that you listed (worse sleep, lower libido, a bit of fat gain, and sometimes a tendency towards depressive or anxious mood) are the exact areas I have seen improvements in, with the exception of weight gain. I am an under type and have a really hard time gaining weight...My sleep is sooo much deeper.
Well, to be fair, my sleep, libido, mood, and perceived stress levels have fluctuated significantly since my health crash in 2020. Going low vA helped but not 100% consistently. That’s why I’m not sure if the eggs are to blame and even if they are, if the mechanism is simply that I’m under more stress with more intense detox or if it’s making the overall situation worse. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Whether I need to be patient as things get better in a somewhat messy way or if I need to tweak something I’m doing in order to avoid damage.
Also, I’ve been an under type myself for almost my entire life. I’m a 5’6” guy who has been 110-125 lb since I reached my full height. The times I got sick in 2018 and 2020 I dipped below 100 lb. One of the things I found that helped me feel better after 2020 was eating a lot more after learning about Ray Peat. In the course of about a year I more than doubled my caloric intake and I did gain weight (both muscle and fat). Right now my weight has mostly stabilized at around 160 lb.
puddleduck, Hermes and Andrew B have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Aleksey on May 5, 2023, 5:14 am
Quote from
Inger on May 5, 2023, 12:27 am
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 7:14 pm
I had one egg yesterday and I tried to do that today as well, but I got a bit constipated last night and then I got constipated this afternoon as well, so I ate another egg. It does seem that eggs do help me with constipation. If I'm having trouble with eggs though, I wonder if I should supplement phosphatidylcholine and lower my egg consumption until I can handle them better. I know eggs have other good and bad things in them and I might miss out on some of the good things, but I also need to figure out how to neutralize the bad while benefiting from the good. At least that's my thought process on this so far.
@aleksey, have you tried eating only the yolks? Maybe you are allergic to the whites? I know many people are. Supposedly it is because they have used eggwhites in vaccines that we got as kids.
What would be the symptoms of an egg white allergy? I kinda doubt that’s what it is if my issues were slowly building rather than a more immediate reaction to eating an egg but I may be wrong.
Quote from
Inger on May 5, 2023, 12:27 am
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 7:14 pm
I had one egg yesterday and I tried to do that today as well, but I got a bit constipated last night and then I got constipated this afternoon as well, so I ate another egg. It does seem that eggs do help me with constipation. If I'm having trouble with eggs though, I wonder if I should supplement phosphatidylcholine and lower my egg consumption until I can handle them better. I know eggs have other good and bad things in them and I might miss out on some of the good things, but I also need to figure out how to neutralize the bad while benefiting from the good. At least that's my thought process on this so far.
@aleksey, have you tried eating only the yolks? Maybe you are allergic to the whites? I know many people are. Supposedly it is because they have used eggwhites in vaccines that we got as kids.
What would be the symptoms of an egg white allergy? I kinda doubt that’s what it is if my issues were slowly building rather than a more immediate reaction to eating an egg but I may be wrong.
puddleduck, Hermes and 2 other users have reacted to this post.
puddleduckHermesPJAndrew B
Quote from
Tommy on May 5, 2023, 5:19 am
@salt
This might sound stupid but I’m trying to look at it from a really simple evolutionary and geographic perspective, because at this point I get dizzy from looking at multiple studies that all contradict each other.
All the asian countries consume a lot of pufas (much more than western countries) and yet have much lower rates of chronic disease than all the western countries. What do you think could be the reason for this.
@salt
This might sound stupid but I’m trying to look at it from a really simple evolutionary and geographic perspective, because at this point I get dizzy from looking at multiple studies that all contradict each other.
All the asian countries consume a lot of pufas (much more than western countries) and yet have much lower rates of chronic disease than all the western countries. What do you think could be the reason for this.
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@salt I get moody and become an insomniac when I eat VA
your diet has lots of hidden VA then
always moody and insulting people
@salt I get moody and become an insomniac when I eat VA
your diet has lots of hidden VA then
always moody and insulting people
Quote from
Aleksey on May 5, 2023, 5:23 am
Quote from
salt on May 5, 2023, 12:54 am
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 7:14 pm
I had one egg yesterday and I tried to do that today as well, but I got a bit constipated last night and then I got constipated this afternoon as well, so I ate another egg. It does seem that eggs do help me with constipation. If I'm having trouble with eggs though, I wonder if I should supplement phosphatidylcholine and lower my egg consumption until I can handle them better. I know eggs have other good and bad things in them and I might miss out on some of the good things, but I also need to figure out how to neutralize the bad while benefiting from the good. At least that's my thought process on this so far.
What does the rest of your diet look like? If it's low fat it could be that you're basically "fat deficient" and that the fat from the egg is helping you with constipation. Have you tried increasing your fat intake by other means? And I'm definitely not recommending "EFAs", something like coconut oil would be a much healthier choice.
I eat plenty of beef and other things. My fat intake is around 80g per day on average and about 30% of my caloric intake. My caloric intake ranges from about 2200 to 2800 per day. I don’t think my diet would be considered either particularly high or low fat. My protein is around 120 g per day and the rest is carbs.
Quote from
salt on May 5, 2023, 12:54 am
Quote from
Aleksey on May 4, 2023, 7:14 pm
I had one egg yesterday and I tried to do that today as well, but I got a bit constipated last night and then I got constipated this afternoon as well, so I ate another egg. It does seem that eggs do help me with constipation. If I'm having trouble with eggs though, I wonder if I should supplement phosphatidylcholine and lower my egg consumption until I can handle them better. I know eggs have other good and bad things in them and I might miss out on some of the good things, but I also need to figure out how to neutralize the bad while benefiting from the good. At least that's my thought process on this so far.
What does the rest of your diet look like? If it's low fat it could be that you're basically "fat deficient" and that the fat from the egg is helping you with constipation. Have you tried increasing your fat intake by other means? And I'm definitely not recommending "EFAs", something like coconut oil would be a much healthier choice.
I eat plenty of beef and other things. My fat intake is around 80g per day on average and about 30% of my caloric intake. My caloric intake ranges from about 2200 to 2800 per day. I don’t think my diet would be considered either particularly high or low fat. My protein is around 120 g per day and the rest is carbs.
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puddleduckHermesAndrew BFabio
Quote from
Andrew B on May 5, 2023, 5:31 am
Quote from
PJ on May 4, 2023, 9:51 pm
Quote from
Chris on May 4, 2023, 5:40 pm
I happen to catch Dr. Smith's latest podcast on youtube today and he went off on eggs and choline again. It's hard to know who to trust here honestly. He said that basically if you have choline deficiency it's not that you're not eating enough, it's that your body is making enough choline because of (likely) folate deficiency. He said that eating too much choline from eggs will have long-term negative effects on the body and used his favorite phrase, 'it won't end well'.
Yes, @andrew-b, aren't you glad that Smith figured out that you have a folate deficiency! Not enough folate to manufacture the choline. LOL (I can laugh because I already explored folate deficiency as an option for my issues but also, Andrew seems pretty keen on his vitamin/mineral status ...)
The folate angle did help me to understand why vegans can get away without choline.
What I can't understand, if B vitamins are antidotes per Smith, then why shouldn't we strive to get the choline and save ourselves from having to manufacture it?
He made the claim that we can only get folate from diet, which I think is not correct.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257725/#:~:text=The%20microbiota%20of%20the%20human,%2C%20and%20cobalamin%20%5B11%5D.
Thanks @pattycake. I was fairly munching down the beans and ran into problems. Hard to imagine I had a folate deficiency. No, he's referring to one salvage pathway for choline. There's another pathway where ethanolamine gets converted to choline but not in theory if there's high vitamin A. It's ironic that choline replenishment as I've experienced it is just like an antidote. There's no need to maintain 4 eggs a day perhaps 1-2 eggs is enough to meet my daily requirements because I dont lose the digestive improvement or other benefits when I stop eggs. In the short term choline or eggs can improve the workings of the liver and then you dont need them so much unless you introduce problems again. I think you are right also. I dont do much beans or lentils now and my digestion and folate seem fine. Actually I've hardly had any alcohol for 2 years that does help folate if anyone wants to follow his folate idea.
Quote from
PJ on May 4, 2023, 9:51 pm
Quote from
Chris on May 4, 2023, 5:40 pm
I happen to catch Dr. Smith's latest podcast on youtube today and he went off on eggs and choline again. It's hard to know who to trust here honestly. He said that basically if you have choline deficiency it's not that you're not eating enough, it's that your body is making enough choline because of (likely) folate deficiency. He said that eating too much choline from eggs will have long-term negative effects on the body and used his favorite phrase, 'it won't end well'.
Yes, @andrew-b, aren't you glad that Smith figured out that you have a folate deficiency! Not enough folate to manufacture the choline. LOL (I can laugh because I already explored folate deficiency as an option for my issues but also, Andrew seems pretty keen on his vitamin/mineral status ...)
The folate angle did help me to understand why vegans can get away without choline.
What I can't understand, if B vitamins are antidotes per Smith, then why shouldn't we strive to get the choline and save ourselves from having to manufacture it?
He made the claim that we can only get folate from diet, which I think is not correct.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257725/#:~:text=The%20microbiota%20of%20the%20human,%2C%20and%20cobalamin%20%5B11%5D.
Thanks @pattycake. I was fairly munching down the beans and ran into problems. Hard to imagine I had a folate deficiency. No, he's referring to one salvage pathway for choline. There's another pathway where ethanolamine gets converted to choline but not in theory if there's high vitamin A. It's ironic that choline replenishment as I've experienced it is just like an antidote. There's no need to maintain 4 eggs a day perhaps 1-2 eggs is enough to meet my daily requirements because I dont lose the digestive improvement or other benefits when I stop eggs. In the short term choline or eggs can improve the workings of the liver and then you dont need them so much unless you introduce problems again. I think you are right also. I dont do much beans or lentils now and my digestion and folate seem fine. Actually I've hardly had any alcohol for 2 years that does help folate if anyone wants to follow his folate idea.
puddleduck, Hermes and 4 other users have reacted to this post.
puddleduckHermesPJDeleted userDonaldAleksey
Quote from
salt on May 5, 2023, 5:32 am
@salt I get moody and become an insomniac when I eat VA
your diet has lots of hidden VA then
always moody and insulting people
absolutely hilarious that you got so butthurt over being called an egghead that you had to make an alt account and follow me around
@salt I get moody and become an insomniac when I eat VA
your diet has lots of hidden VA then
always moody and insulting people
absolutely hilarious that you got so butthurt over being called an egghead that you had to make an alt account and follow me around
puddleduck has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Aleksey on May 5, 2023, 5:33 am
@andrew-b thanks! I’ll try some of those. For now I can cope with the side effects. I’m just hoping they don’t escalate like in previous years. Interestingly enough all my life I was more prone to loose stools than constipation until I went low vA. I poop every day, but unless I get about two bowel movements during the day and one in the late evening I feel like things get backed up, I might get reflux, my intestines feel inflamed, and it doesn’t let me sleep. I guess I go through enough food every day that if I’m not pooping multiple times a day the whole train stops.
@andrew-b thanks! I’ll try some of those. For now I can cope with the side effects. I’m just hoping they don’t escalate like in previous years. Interestingly enough all my life I was more prone to loose stools than constipation until I went low vA. I poop every day, but unless I get about two bowel movements during the day and one in the late evening I feel like things get backed up, I might get reflux, my intestines feel inflamed, and it doesn’t let me sleep. I guess I go through enough food every day that if I’m not pooping multiple times a day the whole train stops.
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Quote from
Andrew B on May 5, 2023, 5:41 am
@aleksey I did reduce my protein from about 120 grams to about 80 grams and increased carbohydrates. I also switched from high beef to chicken, pork and beef for B1 and B5 and to reduce zinc. But it's a very individual thing. Perhaps in short term might help.
@aleksey I did reduce my protein from about 120 grams to about 80 grams and increased carbohydrates. I also switched from high beef to chicken, pork and beef for B1 and B5 and to reduce zinc. But it's a very individual thing. Perhaps in short term might help.
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puddleduckHermesAlekseyFabio
Quote from
Hermes on May 5, 2023, 7:25 am
Quote from
Tommy on May 4, 2023, 4:26 pm
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
You don’t know that for sure though, how can you make that statement?
Can we at least wait for one experimenter to post serum levels over time before coming to conclusions.
@tommy
You're right. At the moment this is just an assertion without any evidence. I'll be measuring my serum vitamin A levels again soon.
Quote from
Tommy on May 4, 2023, 4:26 pm
Quote from
Hermes on May 4, 2023, 3:22 pm
And that question is a profound statement: "[...] but the question is why would ~2 eggs contribute to vA buildup or a nutrient deficiency?“ Actually, ~2 eggs should lead to a deficiency, given the powerful ways choline assists in its detoxification. Serum vitamin A levels should decrease over time with eggs. That's the whole point of eggs, I suppose. Otherwise, you're not detoxing.
You don’t know that for sure though, how can you make that statement?
Can we at least wait for one experimenter to post serum levels over time before coming to conclusions.
You're right. At the moment this is just an assertion without any evidence. I'll be measuring my serum vitamin A levels again soon.
salt, puddleduck and Tommy have reacted to this post.
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