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Eggs as part of Vitamin A reduction
@chris-4 I was doing 4 eggs a day. I reined back the detox in other ways by increasing carbs, reducing protein and switching beef to lower zinc chicken. It's a strong detox. I could only tell by improving digestion, less anxiety and another thing that I was actually healing. So it made no sense about vit A being stored in liver. People got 30,000 IUs from Dr S for 4 years and it never stopped their detoxing it. It was definitely improving bile flow for me. I think it's toxic bile for me because when I've done stage 2 and 3 with cruciferous veg and moderate fat bile flow has improved further.
For you I'd make sure there's not too much protein, fibre or fat that's turbo charging your detox. I think 2 eggs a day might be what's needed but you may be slightly different as you say.
I was giving some advice on diverticular disease and a possible explanation would seem to fit also for those experiencing diarrhea and constipation when they increase the eggs. This previously happened at 5 eggs a day for me and now can happen at 7 eggs a day when I was having basmati rice pudding with an egg in it 2 or 3 times a day plus other egg meals one week recently.
"The activity of choline acetyltransferase was shown to be lower in circular muscle of patients with DD, whilst there was an increase in the number of M3 receptors. Furthermore, patients with DD showed increased sensitivity when administered exogenous acetylcholine, when compared to controls. 5 All these factors lead to increased sensitivity to cholinergic denervation leading to excessive contractile impulses in response to normal stimuli in the diverticular wall."
Diverticular Disease: A Review on Pathophysiology and Recent Evidence - PMC (nih.gov)
To explain it I think our digestion isnt working great and we are low(ish) in choline acetyltransferase which makes sense after decades of gluten intolerance for me. Those with celiac can have lower choline. I had polyps bleeding when I was 12 and diverticula increases the risk of polyps. Now with increased B1 and B5 foods I think my trigger point is higher now. B2 and B3 also play a role but I'm not an expert on this.
Anyone experiencing spasm or diarrhea with one egg may have this issue. It would be worth going slowly with parts of an egg yolk and increasing betaine rather than choline.
Quote from lil chick on June 14, 2023, 9:20 amThat is a good point @christian. haha I wonder if there is any technical way to know if you are VA toxic?
A person can look at what they ate before. In my case the shoe fits very well, because I was eating absurd amounts of VA. But for others who weren't I'm sure they still wonder.
You know, in the olden days diseases were diagnosed almost completely via symptoms. The symptoms I arrived with fit hypervitaminosis A well. I'm glad we keep logs.
I've heard it said that all of us searchers for nutrition solutions are peeling an onion. I think that I've reached a lower level of "my onion". That is an intuition sort of thing, I suppose.
There is, it's harder the other way around - to prove/shove that you are NOT vitamin A toxic due to the possibility of storage. I think serum RBP (retinol binding protein) is a far more reliable indicator (short of biopsies) but its unfortunatly unavailable commercially (as far as I know). Anyway - if you have above convential top end serum retinol, then you bonafide know you have it. I did and doctor agreed. I am not too sure if any other tests are usefull. But yellow skin is also a very sure sign. The real problem is of course you can get sick from it without these signs/indicators and still be very sick. I'm not saying you even will necessarily have less A stored in tissues, but if you get high enough (hope no-one does) you WILL see it on serum tests.
I've been lurking on these forums for a lot of years now.
I've finally got the energy and motivation to post, thanks to the eggs.
I've been having 2 eggs a day for the past 3 months and it has transformed my health.
Prior to introducing the eggs I had been following a low Vitamin A diet for 5 years (eating mainly beef, rice, beans) and was suffering from a lot of health issues anxiety, intrusive thoughts, depression, dry skin, lack of motivation, extreme fatigue.
I had tried eggs in the past along with other vitamin A foods, but would stop, as they would give me extreme symptoms - hair loss, headaches, production of phlegm, extreme fatigue - would be knocked out for days. Classic autoimmune symptoms. This was not isolated to eggs but any foods containing vitamin A or beta carotene.
I introduced the eggs as I was really getting nowhere with my health, I had avoided Vitamin A like the plague for the last 5 years and had nothing to show for it. I was in no better health than when I began. Considering insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, I committed to eating 2 eggs a day for 4 weeks. This was my test.
The first week was horrible, I had some of the worst symptoms I had in years, namely hair loss, headaches, dry skin, (dandruff was off the charts) and fatigue. In the second week the symptoms continued, however I still persisted. Third week I noticed the symptoms started reducing and in the fourth week a lot of the symptoms disappeared. Headaches were gone, anxiety was gone, intrusive thoughts were gone, depression was gone, fatigue was gone. It was like I was reborn! However I still had dry skin.
After 3 months the progress has continued, I have found now I can eat a lot of Vitamin A foods that would give me symptoms before. This includes dairy, avocado, chicken, apples, and mangoes.
The other thing I have noticed is my gluten intolerance symptoms have reduced. I developed gluten intolerance 5 years ago upon the Vitamin A toxicity. I have also found I am calmer now, mental health has been great and I have a zest for life again. I'm sure I was likely deficient in a lot of things by following the low Vitamin A diet for so many years. Eggs are regarded as mother nature's multivitamin and has likely corrected a lot of nutritional deficiencies.
I shudder to think, had I not persisted with the eggs, I would still be in this loop that I had been stuck in for the last 5 years:
Eat Vitamin A -------> Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A --------->Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A ------>Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms ------->Avoid Vitamin A
I am thankful to Andrew for posting this thread, I must admit, I dismissed it the first time I read it and thought there was no way it would work. It has worked in my case, the main issue with avoiding vitamin A for a prolonged period of time is that, Vitamin A is really abundant and is in almost all foods, you then end up likely being deficient in other nutrients which may pose more problems than the Vitamin A.
Ahhh congratulations, @mmc!! 😁🥳 It is absolutely wonderful to read you are feeling so much better (after going through such misery), and have now been able to expand your diet without suffering for it! That’s fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to make an account and post your experience. 🙂 I agree with your last sentence entirely.
@mmc Thanks for taking the time to join the forum and report your results. That's great news considering how long you've been doing this and what's been happening. If you still have a gluten intolerance then it's important to find a betaine source like small amounts of quinoa, beetroot or sunflower seeds. The choline from the eggs may be being used in converting to betaine and you might need the choline for digestive system repair and healing the gluten intolerance completely indeed. B1 foods might also help digestive motility and parasympathetic activity eg pork, sunflower seeds, gluten free oats, macadamia nuts and beans.
Quote from Mario on July 18, 2023, 6:19 amI've been lurking on these forums for a lot of years now.
I've finally got the energy and motivation to post, thanks to the eggs.
I've been having 2 eggs a day for the past 3 months and it has transformed my health.
Prior to introducing the eggs I had been following a low Vitamin A diet for 5 years (eating mainly beef, rice, beans) and was suffering from a lot of health issues anxiety, intrusive thoughts, depression, dry skin, lack of motivation, extreme fatigue.
I had tried eggs in the past along with other vitamin A foods, but would stop, as they would give me extreme symptoms - hair loss, headaches, production of phlegm, extreme fatigue - would be knocked out for days. Classic autoimmune symptoms. This was not isolated to eggs but any foods containing vitamin A or beta carotene.
I introduced the eggs as I was really getting nowhere with my health, I had avoided Vitamin A like the plague for the last 5 years and had nothing to show for it. I was in no better health than when I began. Considering insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, I committed to eating 2 eggs a day for 4 weeks. This was my test.
The first week was horrible, I had some of the worst symptoms I had in years, namely hair loss, headaches, dry skin, (dandruff was off the charts) and fatigue. In the second week the symptoms continued, however I still persisted. Third week I noticed the symptoms started reducing and in the fourth week a lot of the symptoms disappeared. Headaches were gone, anxiety was gone, intrusive thoughts were gone, depression was gone, fatigue was gone. It was like I was reborn! However I still had dry skin.
After 3 months the progress has continued, I have found now I can eat a lot of Vitamin A foods that would give me symptoms before. This includes dairy, avocado, chicken, apples, and mangoes.
The other thing I have noticed is my gluten intolerance symptoms have reduced. I developed gluten intolerance 5 years ago upon the Vitamin A toxicity. I have also found I am calmer now, mental health has been great and I have a zest for life again. I'm sure I was likely deficient in a lot of things by following the low Vitamin A diet for so many years. Eggs are regarded as mother nature's multivitamin and has likely corrected a lot of nutritional deficiencies.
I shudder to think, had I not persisted with the eggs, I would still be in this loop that I had been stuck in for the last 5 years:
Eat Vitamin A -------> Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A --------->Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A ------>Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms ------->Avoid Vitamin A
I am thankful to Andrew for posting this thread, I must admit, I dismissed it the first time I read it and thought there was no way it would work. It has worked in my case, the main issue with avoiding vitamin A for a prolonged period of time is that, Vitamin A is really abundant and is in almost all foods, you then end up likely being deficient in other nutrients which may pose more problems than the Vitamin A.
Chicken and apples are vitamin a foods?
That's an amazing story to tell! Congratulations on your success and on regaining a zest for life. Stories like these move me and motivate me to keep marching to the beat of the drum. We're outliers here, desperate for change. Thank you for sharing your story.
Quote from sand on July 18, 2023, 8:33 amQuote from Mario on July 18, 2023, 6:19 amI've been lurking on these forums for a lot of years now.
I've finally got the energy and motivation to post, thanks to the eggs.
I've been having 2 eggs a day for the past 3 months and it has transformed my health.
Prior to introducing the eggs I had been following a low Vitamin A diet for 5 years (eating mainly beef, rice, beans) and was suffering from a lot of health issues anxiety, intrusive thoughts, depression, dry skin, lack of motivation, extreme fatigue.
I had tried eggs in the past along with other vitamin A foods, but would stop, as they would give me extreme symptoms - hair loss, headaches, production of phlegm, extreme fatigue - would be knocked out for days. Classic autoimmune symptoms. This was not isolated to eggs but any foods containing vitamin A or beta carotene.
I introduced the eggs as I was really getting nowhere with my health, I had avoided Vitamin A like the plague for the last 5 years and had nothing to show for it. I was in no better health than when I began. Considering insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, I committed to eating 2 eggs a day for 4 weeks. This was my test.
The first week was horrible, I had some of the worst symptoms I had in years, namely hair loss, headaches, dry skin, (dandruff was off the charts) and fatigue. In the second week the symptoms continued, however I still persisted. Third week I noticed the symptoms started reducing and in the fourth week a lot of the symptoms disappeared. Headaches were gone, anxiety was gone, intrusive thoughts were gone, depression was gone, fatigue was gone. It was like I was reborn! However I still had dry skin.
After 3 months the progress has continued, I have found now I can eat a lot of Vitamin A foods that would give me symptoms before. This includes dairy, avocado, chicken, apples, and mangoes.
The other thing I have noticed is my gluten intolerance symptoms have reduced. I developed gluten intolerance 5 years ago upon the Vitamin A toxicity. I have also found I am calmer now, mental health has been great and I have a zest for life again. I'm sure I was likely deficient in a lot of things by following the low Vitamin A diet for so many years. Eggs are regarded as mother nature's multivitamin and has likely corrected a lot of nutritional deficiencies.
I shudder to think, had I not persisted with the eggs, I would still be in this loop that I had been stuck in for the last 5 years:
Eat Vitamin A -------> Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A --------->Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms -------> Avoid Vitamin A ------>Try Vitamin A again ------->Get extreme symptoms ------->Avoid Vitamin A
I am thankful to Andrew for posting this thread, I must admit, I dismissed it the first time I read it and thought there was no way it would work. It has worked in my case, the main issue with avoiding vitamin A for a prolonged period of time is that, Vitamin A is really abundant and is in almost all foods, you then end up likely being deficient in other nutrients which may pose more problems than the Vitamin A.
Chicken and apples are vitamin a foods?
It looks to me like he had chosen the Grant "prison food diet" and whenever he stepped out of it, he felt horrible. At least that is how I'm reading it. Perhaps he can comment.